Toe-up heel flap/gusset - huh-wha?!?

i’ve lost my mind and can’t get past about 10:15 in this video: … i’m done with the heel side stitches, but when she starts in with the ssks, wrap & turns, 8 stitches, 13 stitches, etc, i can’t figure it out and can’t find a pattern of sorts… i may just end up frogging back the heel work and doing something more basic.

You might want to make this easier by not doing the slip stitch pattern. You can slip the first stitch and then just knit across on the right side. There actually aren’t any w&t on this heel. K2tog or ssk at the gaps to eliminate the hole and incorporate one more of the unworked sts on either side of the heel.

What are the heel side stitches you refer to?

The unworked sts flanking the slip stitch heel, the ones that decrease on one side or the other as you work the rows

I knit my socks toe up and use the Fleegle heel, no heel flap needed. Plus no hole at the side where the gusset meets the end of heel.

OK, I get it, the slipped stitches at either side of the heel flap. I was thinking he meant the picked up stitches and the video hasn’t gotten that far yet. Thanks!

I like the Fleegle heel too, and the faux heel flap in Liat Gat’s pattern Toe Up Heel Flap Socks. I go back and forth depending on my mood.

thanks for all the responses ladies :wink:

S - i was being a bit facetious with the list of techniques. blooming knitter’s videos are usually helpful, but after that first part of knitting, she just started throwing in a lot of new things, 3-4 techniques in one row, without explaining it enough, for me. (“sort of kind of the middle, plus or minus 1 or 2” does not inspire confidence!)

GG - by the ‘heel side’ stitches, i didn’t mean the slipped ones. i know those are for incorporating later on. i meant the heel side of the sock, as opposed to the instep. so after i (re-)did the toe, and after i knit the foot (in pattern on the instep, in stockinette on the bottom/heel side), i then kept knitting the extra ‘flap’ on just the bottom side that becomes part of the gusset/heel.

DLD - thanks for the fleegle suggestion. i’ve practiced just that, but just as a heel, not as part of a whole sock, and it’s since been frogged. it’s also been a while, so i’d have to practice it again.

GG - i’ve practiced a number of them but so far have only used short row, and the kind that resembles decreasing for a toe. i forget the name.

if i knew the basic premise here… like, “usually work X # or % of stitches, do this kind of an increase/decrease on the right outside, this other kind on the left outside, this kind on the right inside, this other kind on the left inside,” etc. it’s my inexperience with it, and not finding the right tutorial.

skills to research and work on:
1 - heel tutorials.
2 - # or % of stitches to mess with after knitting the gusset/flap
3 - picking up wraps w/current stitches & knitting together.
4 - using DPNs for working just the heel stitches (my usual 2 circs & even magic loop are both driving me nuts w/this. too many needles & cables not playing nice w/working yarn).

so much for having these done this weekend.

Learning new things is always a painful process. At least knitting mistakes have somewhat less painful consequences than ice skating lessons.

2 - # or % of stitches to mess with after knitting the gusset/flap skip up to about 2:50, she says 2/3 of the heel flap stitches. I like Kelley’s videos even when I don’t do things the same way I get a good understanding of what’s going on. The gusset comes in when you pick up along the sides of the heel flap.

ETA Confession: The closest I’ve come to working a heel flap is the tongue at the top of a top down slipper (thank you, DROPS, for teaching me how to do them) that doesn’t get turned. The flap is the same, you just don’t do the turn and go directly to picking up stitches.


i don’t do that. but… i think rollerblading and snowboarding count close enough :wink:

aha! j’accuse mon petit fromage! :wink: thanks for the video suggestion. i’m still feeling like practice practice practice until some of these ‘but it’s so easy’ concepts actually sink in.

“It’s not hard” :hair:

Things like socks with heels and toes aren’t hard once we learn how. Cables too. And other things. The hard part comes in when we decide we want them to look better or something. You’ll get it. I’m stuck on rib that spirals to make tube socks. Frogged them again.


flap/gusset heel attempt one, frogged.

attempt two, frogged.

garter stitch heel attempt one on 2 circs, frogged.

attempt two on wooden DPNs, frogged.

going for attempt 3. i switched everything over to metal DPNs.

maybe this time i can avoid the missed stitches and gaps?

if not, it’s a basic afterthought reduction heel, and i’m calling it good.

(side note: when did i start struggling with bamboo & birch needles so badly? how spoiled i have become with all our modern alloys.)

I inherited my dad’s feet so regular socks are too tight across the instep and I think you may find this is true for your feet.

I just tried an easy sock pattern, no wraps – with gusset but without heel flap. It is a free pattern by Liat Gat of KnitFreedom. It works no matter what number of stitches you have.

Basically for most heels, you are working with twice the stitches on the heel needle than for the instep. To gain those extra stitches is what a gusset is for.

Here is the link for the sock pattern by Liat Gat, I think it may help you. I have to tell you it looked strange to me until I put is on my foot, and it fits nicely. But every pattern isn’t for every foot.

I had looked at many short row tutorials and said WTH and went back to Liat’s pattern as I was only wanting to make some bed socks.

But what ever number you have for stitch count, is doubled as noted before and the decreased on the heel side, will get you back down the the correct number of stitches to work the leg. No holes, no picking up wraps. And it fits! Yeah!!!,%20TOE-UP%20or%20TOP-DOWN.pdf

It’s all about the fit. I use the heel in Liat’s pattern or the Fleegle heel. It depends upon my mood at the time. lol I find they fit about the same and both are easy to work. The faux heel flap works better if I want a contrast heel because of the way it’s worked. I did some short row heels early on but even if they seem to fit they don’t feel as good and they show wear where the others don’t. There just isn’t enough give in them to allow for the beating a sock heel takes is all I can figure.

I think I like the very high instep better because I have long narrow feet. To get the snug, not tight fit I like requires fewer stitches than any pattern I’ve looked at calls for. 60 stitches would be too too loose unless I use US 000 DPSS (double pointed sock skewers) so I’ve never used a sock pattern and followed it exactly.

I like sock patterns where I can try it on.

I knit before Christmas, all in my family Christmas stocking as the free pattern had decorative stripes going on the instep and a nice padded heel. Of course they were oversized which when my son asked “where’s the mate?” Told him, “You get one which is king size for holding more presents.”

I am in the process of trying out the Liat’s pattern with heel flap. I have the right foot measurements from the other pattern so I can just knit the project the same up till there.

I like to always find something new to learn in each project or it can get boring and I don’t want or need another unfinished project.

Wore my last pair off the needles to bed last night, felt wonderful. I didn’t even sew in the tails until this morning LOL!

Can’t sleep so long as my feet are cold. Went to sleep much faster. WONDERFUL!

What’s the difference between a heel flap and a Fleegle heel, guess I’ll find out.

I have to look them up every time but…as a I recall the Fleegle heel is a glorified short row heel. You work past the center stitch and start your short rows. You have the faux heel flap pattern so you can compare. I know it’s worked a little differently is all I can say right now. I have to go hem pants I just sewed so I better not start looking things up. lol Yarn WIPs [I]and [/I]sewing WIPs.

my new ‘hmm, i wonder’ thing… which i have not researched at all yet, is about making socks toe-up and cuff-down at the same time… so that with a little finishing/construction, they meet somewhere in the middle (probably the leg, above the heel)… i thought that might solve the issue of too-tight bind offs that can happen with toe-up, but also have the benefit of using as much of the yarn as possible, as with toe-ups… i think it would require an entire round of either kitchener or 3-needle bind-off.

  1. start cuff down, work for a little while in whatever rib pattern you want (1-2" of k1p1 etc), then leave those stitches on a holder or cable, cut yarn for weaving in tail…

  2. then start a toe-up portion, work the whole foot, heel, and start the leg, and then knit until you’ve finished a round AND have enough leftover yarn for joining…

  3. join pieces using kitchener or 3-needle BO (or some other seaming method?)

you could still use whatever stitch pattern, whatever heel, and all the yarn from a sock-size skein… just a thought. i’ll research it at some point.