Problems with Bergere de France Puncho pattern

Hi
Can anyone help? I bought Bergere de France’s ‘Creations 11/12’ so as I could knit the roll neck puncho - only I simply can’t work out the pattern. Three experienced knitters have also tried to figure it out for me, but without success. I’m in the UK and was expecting to receive a pattern giving instructions row by row. Instead, there’s a brief run down of what stitches are used along with a small section on the pattern. It’s got me beat. Has anyone ever knitted this before? And can anyone help? I can send a photo shot of the pattern if that helps?
Thanks
Karen :aww:

Posting a shot of the actual pattern isn’t allowed, unless it’s just a portion. You can also type out a few lines of the instructions and we can help you out that way. Many european patterns aren’t row by row, they just say cast on, work this pattern, inc, and so on, they’re very brief. But they should refer to the stitch patterns used and have a chart for them.

Hi Sue
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
There is a very small chart just for the cable. The cable stitch is worked over 25 stitches and is seperated by st st. In total there are only 4 rows to the pattern, which is a bit confusing as we generally work every row individually.
You work a bit of the pattern before your 1st row begins. After your 1st row is completed it says:
[I]When work measures 14 rows…[/I]
Does this mean I rework row 1 until I have 14 rows? And is it 14 rows in total, or 28 rows (including st st on reverse).
…[I]total work k1, k2tog, k21, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt rep from * to end with k1. Work 7 rows on the rem sts.[/I]
Does this mean I work the above row 7 more times before moving on to row 2? Or 14 including st st?
Any ideas would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks again
Karen

If you have 4 rows in the pattern, you would repeat them for 14 rows, so that’s 3 times through, then 2 more rows. A row is a row, one trip across the needle, so 5 rows in stockinette for example, starting with a knit row would be knit, purl, knit, purl, knit. So after 14 rows (which should leave you at the end of row 2 of the pattern) the next row will have the decs, then row 3 of the cable pattern. Then go to row 4 of the pattern for the first of the 7 rows and do 6 more rows.

Hi Sue
Sorry. I’m completely confused. Our patterns are so easy, anything remotely different phases us.
For example, say I’ve knit row one 14 times, it then tells me to introduce cable and dec for one row, and states I’ll have 210 sts remaining. It then says ‘work 7 rows on the remaining 210 sts’. Does that mean I rework row 1 seven times? Or the cable row?
I think I’m going to have to rewrite the pattern in English.
Thanks
Karen :aww:

You don’t knit just the one row 14 times, you knit the 4 row pattern repeat for 14 rows. So you work row 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2,3, 4 and so on until you’ve done 14 rows. That should include the cable pattern in there, with plain knit or purl sts between the cables. Then the next row, the 15th, you work decs then the 3rd row of the cable pattern over the next sts, dec, repeat the cable pattern again etc. After that you knit another 7 rows, still doing the cable pattern (rows 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2) and probably after that you do row 3 again with more decs.

Morning Sue
Thanks for your patients. I understand what you’re saying. What’s confusing me is the patterns instructions to knit varying rows appears to differ to what you might be saying. Row 1 to 4 states:

Row 1: k30, p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k29 rep to ending with p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k1. When work measures 14 rows total work k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.
Work 7 rows on the rem 210 sts.

Row 2:(rs) k1, k2tog, k23, slip 1, k1, psso, 25cp, rep from to ending with k1 (202 sts).
Work 7 rows on the rem 202 sts.

Row 3: (rs) k1, k2tog, k21, slip1, k1, psso, 25 sts Cable patt rep from to ending with k1.
Rep this dec row on every foll 8th row 10 times.
Work 4 rows on them rem 114 sts.

Next row:(rs) k2tog at beg of row, cont on rem sts. Leave the rem 113 ss on a st holder.

I’m confident it’s perfectly easy if only I could figure the pattern out.

Thanks
Karen :aww:

The confusing part may be the use of “Row 1-4” in the instructions. It makes them seem like consecutive rows which they are not. Follow the instructions and keep track of what row you’re on. At the same time keep the cable pattern repeating . Use 2 row counters or paper and pencil to make sure you don’t skip a row, especially on the cable pattern.

[B]Row 1[/B]: k30, p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k29 rep to ending with p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k1. When work measures 14 rows total work
[B]Row 15[/B]: k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.
Work 7 rows on the rem 210 sts.

[B]Row 23[/B]:(rs) k1, k2tog, k23, slip 1, k1, psso, 25cp, rep from to ending with k1 (202 sts).
Work 7 rows on the rem 202 sts.

[B]Row 31[/B]: (rs) k1, k2tog, k21, slip1, k1, psso, 25 sts Cable patt rep from to ending with k1.
Rep this dec row on every foll 8th row 10 times.
[B]So repeat this dec row on rows 39,47,55,63,71,79,87,95,103,111[/B]
Work 4 rows on the rem 114 sts.

Next row [B]I’d do this on row 115[/B]:(rs) k2tog at beg of row, cont on rem sts. Leave the rem 113 ss on a st holder.
All of the decrease rows happen on right side rows.

Dear Salmonmac

Wow - how did you work that out? I’d never have gotten it. Even now as I look at the original pattern I can’t see how you figured it out, but I’m really pleased you did. Thanks so much.

Just got one more question (don’t hate me!)… When it say’s ‘work 7 rows of the rem 210 sts’ can I just confirm that means to work 7 rows of what is technically row 15 (k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.) And, does this follow suit for the other rows where it tells you to work 7 or 4 rows on the rem st?

Thanks for your patience. I’ve never knitted a pattern like this before.
Thanks again,
Karen

When it say’s ‘work 7 rows of the rem 210 sts’ can I just confirm that means to work 7 rows of what is technically row 15 (k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.) And, does this follow suit for the other rows where it tells you to work 7 or 4 rows on the rem st?

No you don’t do it on every row; the 4 rows given are for the [I]dec rows only.[/I] It looks like it’s stockinette stitch with the cable stitch pattern, that’s what you work between the dec rows. Here’a another way of looking at it -

Row1 - dec row
rows 2-14, pattern rows (stockinette and cable stitch)
Row 15, dec row
rows 16-22, pattern rows
row 23, dec row
rows 24 - 30 pattern rows
and so on…

Yes, I agree, You can think of the rows between the decrease rows as knit the knit sts and purl the purl sts. The only thing that changes in these rows is the cable pattern which goes through its chart pattern. Don’t decrease on every row or you will have a very tiny poncho!
It’s very good-looking btw. Check out the finished projects on Ravelry if you haven’t already. Some pictures clearly show the intermittent decrease rows. Good luck with it.

Hi there,
Thanks for all your time and effort. I really appreciate it. Sadly thou (don’t hate me) I’m still utterly confused. I thought if I typed up the first part of the pattern in full (this isn’t the entire pattern - just the first bit), then maybe it would make a bit more sense when explained to be. So…

Cast on 218 st
Work in st st for 4 rows
Change needles, work as follows: 30 sts st-st, 25 sts cable, 29 sts st-st rep from to ending with 25 sts cable, 1 st st-st [COLOR=“Lime”](is this bit the actual pattern?)[/COLOR]

(now it gets weird)
1st row will be: k30, p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k29 rep to ending with p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k1. When work measures 14 rows total work k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.
Work 7 rows on the rem 210 sts [COLOR=“Lime”](7 rows of what?)[/COLOR]

Row 2:(rs) k1, k2tog, k23, slip 1, k1, psso, 25cp, rep from to ending with k1 (202 sts).
Work 7 rows on the rem 202 sts [COLOR=“Lime”](7 rows of what?)[/COLOR]

Row 3: (rs) k1, k2tog, k21, slip1, k1, psso, 25 sts Cable patt rep from to ending with k1.
Rep this dec row on every foll 8th row 10 times.
Work 4 rows on them rem 114 sts [COLOR=“Lime”](4 rows of what?)[/COLOR]

Next row:(rs) k2tog at beg of row, cont on rem sts. Leave the rem 113 ss on a st holder.

I’m sorry to bug you, but I can’t seem to grasp your meaning. I think if I don’t get it this time I’ll throw the pattern out and give up.

Thanks
KAren

“work as follows: 30 sts st-st, 25 sts cable, 29 sts st-st rep from to ending with 25 sts cable, 1 st st-st [COLOR=Lime](is this bit the actual pattern?)[/COLOR]”

Yes, your basic pattern is st st with cable panels.

It’s written a little differently but it’s not that weird. The 1st row is a set up row and the one after that and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rows should be called decrease rows, they’re not pattern rows, just showing you where the decreases are.

So on the first one - k30, p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k29 rep to ending with p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k1 - that sets up the pattern and the repeated stitches should correspond to the cable chart later on. So when you’ve worked 14 rows of the stockinette and cable pattern, you do the first dec row - k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1. Again that’s stockinette with the cable pattern. You do another 7 rows of st st plus cable and the 2nd decrease row.

You can do it, you’re just over thinking it. You begin with the basic stitch pattern - knit X sts, * knit 25 sts cable pattern, knit y sts and repeat, ending with knit X sts. Then on rows 15, 23, 31, and so on, every 8th row, you do decs in the plain stockinette sts, then cable, then another stockinette section with decs etc. The other 7 rows you just knit or purl the sts plain, following the cable pattern in its section.

Cast on 218 st
Work in st st for 4 rows
Change needles, work as follows: 30 sts st-st, 25 sts cable, 29 sts st-st rep from to ending with 25 sts cable, 1 st st-st
[B]This is the actual pattern. Work this row. [/B]

1st row will be: k30, p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k29 rep to ending with p2, k9, p3, k9, p2, k1. When work measures 14 rows total work k1, k2tog, k25, slip 1, k1, psso, 25 sts cable patt re from to end with 1.
Work 7 rows on the rem 210 sts.[B] The easiest way to look at these 7 rows is that if you see a loop, purl it; if you see a V stitch, knit it. The pattern just wants you to continue the sts as you have them on the needle without any increases or decreases. Think of this as the resting rows between the rigors of the decreases. All you have to do is read the sts on the needle.[/B]

Row 2:(rs) k1, k2tog, k23, slip 1, k1, psso, 25cp, rep from to ending with k1 (202 sts).
Work 7 rows on the rem 202 sts [B]Same deal, knit the Vs, purl the loops, no decreases.
[/B]

The only important thing to keep in mind while you’re relaxing with the rows between the decrease rows is the cable pattern. Keep track of where the cables cross and follow that chart.
This is really a stunning pattern and I think it’s very do-able for you. Sometimes however it helps to put the whole thing down for a day and come back to it with fresh eyes.

Morning
Okay - I’m still not too sure what I actually ‘work’ on the 7 rows (and 4 rows - whether it’s the actual cable pattern or something else) that follows a dec row, but I’ve made a start.
As I knit I’ll write the pattern down so as I know how to read it more easily next time. I’ve had several requests to knit the puncho for friends and family so it’ll be great if I actually remember what I’m doing. :happydance:
Thanks for all your help and patience. I really appreciate it. Can I bug you again if I meet a hurdle?
Karen :knitting:

Work means knit or purl your stitch pattern, which is stockinette alternating with the cable pattern on all rows. Because of the decs you knit 2 less knit sts between the cable sections. So while the first row is - k30, * cable pattern, k 29 * rep from to ending with cable, k1 - after you do the decs the rows are k28, * cable pattern, k27, rep from * and end with cable, k1. The WS rows will be to purl all stitches. Work that for 7 rows then do another dec row, and after that the RS rows will be - k26, * cable, k25, repeat from * and end with cable, k1. Once you actually start knitting it, you’ll see how it works out, just look at your sts, put a markers to set off the cable sts so you know where they beging and end and that may help you.

Thank you so much. I have been trying to decypher this pattern and tried knitting it twice to no avail. Coming back to knitting after 20 years i am a little rusty!! “WS rows will be to purl all stitches” was a lightbulb moment!!! Thank you x

Uhhh, not to confuse you, but I might have been wrong about the WS. Usually in a cable pattern, the WS is done however the sts look - if the next one to be done looks like a knit, knit it, if it looks like a purl, purl it.

I hope its right. The pattern does say stockinette stitch and i thought that meant purl all wrong side in cable??? I dont know really im just trying to grasp any help I can from online. Thanks so much for replying. What do you think?

Okay, it’s been a while since I looked at this pattern, so you may well be right that it’s all stockinette stitch. The cable sts would be, I was thinking of the sts between the cables; usually they’re reverse stockinette so the cables show more.