Front Neck Shaping

Well lots of company on the Ravelry projects’ page. Several knitters commented on the shoulders, the grafting and so on.
It could be that the seam is tilted to the back perhaps to match the buttonband/buttonhole band on the left shoulder? You might try putting the right shoulder sts on hold while you work the left shoulder and bands. Then see how the right shoulder best balances the left and how the pattern looks.
Differences in row gauge may contribute to how long each pattern extends, too.

This is wise. The left shoulder is swapped to MC both front and back for all black flaps with button holes. Again the back has 2 rows of white/red pattern and I’m unsure whether to just go ahead and swap to MC (black) and ignore the random 2 rows of black & white?

But in that picture I’m quite convinced I can see the red and white stitches where the front meets the back!

Yes, there is the red and white at the shoulder top but which size is this?
How does the height of the right shoulder match the left? You can certainly extend the right back shoulder and see how the shoulders and armholes line up.

I’ve no idea what size is in the photograph from the book :frowning:

The left and right front are the same (a finished full flooer) and the backs also the same but 12 rows lower…

See what looks right to you and extend the extend the back if you think that works and looks better. It’s such a stunning sweater and you’ve worked it so well.

I think the pattern is correct here where the front is worked longer than the back, and also the line of incomplete pattern of red and white on the back.
The front being longer contains the neck shaping, and the full extra band of pattern means the pattern runs smoothly up the front and over the shoulder, making the ‘seam’ (or graft or buttonband) sit toward the back of the shoulder rather than half way across. It gives a better look to the front of the sweater (and probably sits on the body better too). It’s just a shifting of the seam position further back to improve the fit and look, but it’s confusing to work because it feels uneven.

Often sleeves go in the arm hole where the centre top of the sleeve aligns with the shoulder seam which is the centre of the person’s shoulder. Here, when the shoulder seam is pitched toward the back, the the centre top of the sleeve will be some rows further forward than the shoulder seam. The sleeve will be straight, as expected, it will align with the person’s shoulder, but not the shoulder seam.
Personally I wouldn’t change the length of the back at this point because it will alter the size of the armhole which will require differently sized sleeves… and you’ve already made the sleeves.
To change the row count now, in my logic, you’d need to reduce the front by however many rows you increase the back, shifting the seam to centre shoulder but maintaining the armhole size… and if you think of it this way then the knock on effect is the neck shaping needs to be shared beteeen front and back and the front would no longer have that nice complete pattern running smoothly over the shoulder. Instead the front and back would both have both worked to, say 206, a couple of rows into the yellow and black and this would be seamed/grafted, jogging the pattern. And the button band would also need to be taken into account.

This knitter’s photos show the lovely complete section of pattern on the front, how it is uninterupted, a good visual look.
In the third pic it’s folded so the neck pitches forwards, showing how the shoulder seam and button band are towards the back. And the second to last shows that too, lovely front pattern with button band towards back shoulder, not half way.

The thin band of white and red I believe adds visual balance to the back and will look good when done. Rather than an incomplete pattern it’s like a line of detail so the sweater is balanced when finished.
https://www.ravelry.com/projects/Susan072/fishermans-sweater

That’s just my take on it. It is, as always, knitter’s choice.

This makes a lot of sense. And is also what I was told on Ravelry - somebody said a lot of European designers have shorter back rows to sit the shoulder slightly away from the neck.

Whereas @salmonmac I’ve also been advised by a lady who owns a knitting shop nearby to knit up the back pattern to match the front.

I think I’m going to stick to the pattern and see how it unfolds! Thank you both so much for your insights - I never realised there is so much variety in this stuff!

Here’s how the back left shoulder looks with the back shoulder flap after the few rows of unmatching pattern:Processing: 1000084722.jpg…

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I’ve knit sweaters both ways: shoulder seam tilted toward the back or at the top of the shoulder. Mostly the latter but it may be the tilt to the back balances the button/buttonhole bands on the left shoulder better.
Try your photo once again please but wait a bit for the upload before posting.

It looks good and will work with the buttonhole band from the front but do you like it? How do the sleeves fit in the armhole space/steeks?

I don’t think it’s ruinous…

I do wonder why design these rows with a separate motif and why not just MC or something that blends?

You could well do these rows with the MC which would work nicely with the bands on the other shoulder.

Going to stick with instructions for now before I get a bit more experience :slight_smile:

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First graft (right shoulder) front has full pattern and back small red and white few rows


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Very neat graft! Nicely done.

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Looks great!
I know you aren’t keen on the thinner band of colour but I honestly think this will work out beautifully and balance with the rest of the back.
I can’t even see the graft.

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Thank you both!

I recently found another thread where you helped another knitter with this jumper. I think a lot of knitters just go off piste with this one because the instructions aren’t obvious… “Catch down the long edge” I saw @salmonmac advise this to mean sewing the seam on the cast off edge.

But again the pattern leaves out the step where you cast off the edge first. I think @Creations said this before that designers sometimes skip steps that I guess should be obvious?

I also saw other knitters saying the button holes don’t align with the purl turning ridge - should I prioritise the button holes aligning and let the turning ridge sit wherever it ends up? (Maybe it isn’t meant to rest at the top of the shoulder but slightly back?)

Definitely have the buttonholes line up. That needs to happen for them to work. They should align with the front buttonholes a row or two after the turning purl ridge. It’s likely that the turn happens toward the back. This would be true even if the shoulder seam was sitting bang on the shoulder. It’ll certainly be toward the back when the shoulder seam is canted to the back.

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Sorry I don’t know what canted means