Trying to be Vegetarian: Missing Meat big time

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[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]Well, I’ll preface this with the article I read in Gourmet magazine a month ago. It revealed the grim grim reality of how they kill chickens in this country (and alternative more humane ways they are doing it in Europe). It upset me so much I haven’t eaten chicken since then (except a little bite of my husband’s chicken salad sandwich which was delicious). Actually, it’s not just about how they kill them, it’s about what they are as they are forced to mature in only 6 weeks.

That article really upset me, as has some of the videos I’ve seen presented by Whole Foods owner John Mackey.

Is anyone else out there who is upset by factory farms and has made a big change in your life? I am buying organic more and more…

We tried to be vegetarians in the past. The last time, 3 years ago, we ate a lot of pasta and gained a lot of weight. Then we tried a few weeks ago. Last night we had an enormous porterhouse after quite a while of no beef. (for me, not DH). It was delicious.

I found after a 2 to 3 weeks of not eating meat, (I do eat a lot of fish) that I was getting weaker, esp my legs. Like when climbing the stairs I felt my muscles were just not strong at all. That’s worrisome.

I’d like to walk away from meat, but the more I don’t eat it, the more I think of all the delicious dishes I love to make: spicy chile, chicken paprikash, kielbasa, cheeseburgers. It’s so hard to come up with really great vegetarian dishes every night.

How do you deal with killing animals, being vegetarian, or not? I’d appreciate any input here.

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I know that animals are being treated quite aweful while being bred for meat. But, i can’t live without meat. No soya and no other stuff will replace a steak or a chicken dish. I also have a rare kind of anemia, so meat is very important to me. I would have bought organic meat and chicken and also “freedom eggs”, BUT they cost a fortune here and i can’t afford myself. So i keep eating the usual meat. In your place, especially taking into consideration the weakness you’ve described, i would buy organic, if you can afford it. I’m sure there are farms that raise normal chicken and kill them in a more appropriate way. In Israel it’s a special problem, because the kosher way to kill a cow or a chicken is horrible, so at least you don’t have that on your conscience.
Please, if there are any vegeterians out here, i don’t want to offend anyone’s feelings about this subject, i just expressed mine.
VictoiseC, whatever you will choose to do, good luck :hug:

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I’m certainly no expert, but I do know that whether you are a vegetarian or a meat eater you need to have certain nutrients for your body to function properly. I think one of the big things for vegetarians to consider is what nutrients they need to replace when giving up meat. One of the biggies is protein. If you aren’t willing to eat beans and soy products in suffient quantities you might find it hard to get what you need.

What did you use to replace the protein, etc in meat? Getting weak means to me something is missing. :think:

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That’s a really tough question …to be vegetarian (I am not) takes a lot of attention to nutrition to be sure you get enough protein and other vitamins/minerals found in meat. I made myself pretty sick once by being vegetarian without trying - I really do not like the texture of meat at all and have to make myself eat it. PLus, there are of fair number of products that are made with animal by products - gelatin being a big one. As “we” moved away from self-sustainable farming, factories to provide food became necessary. I am not sure that organic means it was any more humanely slaughtered as Tyson now has a line of organic chicken. Kosher is the “old” way that food was slaughtered back in the day before USDA and FDA. Seafood really isn’t humanely caught and killed either as the fish (or whatever) are caught in large nets that often kill other sea life and then they are thrown into holds and die “like a fish out of water.” Shoot - I grew up on the Bay and we always caught and boiled crabs…how’s that for humane?
So how do I deal with it…in my mind there is no way to humanely kill something. I had an aunt that boycotted cruelty in slaughter houses by raising her own chickens and rabbits for protein…I really don’t find chopping somethings head off or bashing it against a tree to break it’s neck a more acceptable form of slaughter. I figure people have been eating meat for years and I need it to survive and be healthy.
I focus more of my attention on buying shampoos and lotions that haven’t been tested on animals. Recycling everything I possibly can, using reusbale bags for grocery shopping, etc.

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I rarely eat meat, but it’s not because of the humane factor. I do not agree with the way the animals are being raised and what they are fed. The hormones that are injected into animals to make them mature faster have horrible affects on our bodies after we ingest the meat.

There are such things as free range chicken and beef, where chickens are allowed out of the chicken coop and fed natural diets. Same thing with cattle. Check your labels very carefully. You can purchase meat online as well. I have not done this, but a friend has, and she says she will not go back to eating meat from a store again.

You would be surprised at the amount of protein you actually need to survive. It’s far less than the “experts” claim. Once you start substituting your source of protein, you’ll find that you benefit in other ways because you are getting other nutrients as well.

Try reading “The Maker’s Diet,” which explains how diet affects our bodies and gives alternative diet plans, with explanations of what foods affect your bodies in what ways.

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I’ve been vegetarian for 15 years. One of the things you learn is about nutrition.

First, a minor point, vegetarians do not eat fish. Fish were once living animals. You’re welcome to continue to eat fish if you like, but please don’t call yourself a vegetarian if you do.

Nutrition: check out sites like Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, and Vegetarian Resource Group for information on vegetarian nutrition. You might also like the book [I]Becoming Vegetarian[/I], which outlines nutritional guidelines for various age groups. It IS possible to eat a healthy vegetarian diet and get all the nutrients you need. In fact, you’ll learn that most of us eat much more protein than we actually need.

Eating your favorite meals: I (or other vegetarians) can help you vegetarianize your favorite meat-based meals. Take advantage of our years of learning to do this for ourselves. I really like a mock-tuna salad which uses chopped chickpeas instead of tuna. I have a fabulous chili recipe - you can easily substitute for what meat you include in your recipe. When I craved cheeseburgers in my early vegetarian days, I found what I really craved was all the toppings - and a veggie or bean burger with tomato and onion and pickles and lettuce and cheese and ketchup was just as good for satisfying those cravings. www.veggieboards.com has a lot of people who will help you adjust your recipes - there are some great cooks there.

Some people go vegetarian for health reasons, others for ethical reasons, and some for environmental reasons. I went vegetarian for ethical reasons and can’t imagine going back - those reasons trumped any cravings I had early on. BUT I can’t and won’t make those decisions for anyone else. Whether you decide to transition to vegetarianism more slowly (and not go “cold tofu”) or you cut back on your meat consumption some, or jump in with both feet, I’ll be happy that it’s helping more animals. But at the same time, I know that it’s an incredibly personal decision, and that holidays are a tough time to make the change, with all those traditional meat-centered meals. You may want to wait, or make the change more slowly than you had anticipated.

Personally, though, I do not see the point (in Western society) of killing animals just so I can eat, when I can eat a perfectly healthy diet without it.

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I remember trying the very thing when I watched a movie with Billy Crystal… about cattle farming or something… and I tried so hard… but it’s really impossible to be a vegetarian, when you do not like vegtables… So you can see, i was stuck with pasta. all the time. :neutral:

I ended up deciding that I am a carnivore by nature, some people are able to adjust to suit lifestyle, beliefs or are even born vegitarian, I know several people who have never liked the taste or texture of meat.

cftwo had some pretty great suggestions, so as long as you love your veggies too, I wouldn’t give up. You may not end up a vegetarian, but if you even just managed to limit your meat, that would make a difference too. :wink:

I wish I liked veggies… :sad:

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I have been a veggie for nearly 15 years. I thought it was going to be a hard transition but I do not miss meat at all. Sometimes it is difficult to find things to eat (especially on road trips) and that does get annoying.

DH and I became vegetarians after living in a town with a slaughterhouse/meat plant where they would burn the blood weekly, and that was just the most disgusting thing I have ever smelled in my life.

I’d like to walk away from meat, but the more I don’t eat it, the more I think of all the delicious dishes I love to make: spicy chile, chicken paprikash, kielbasa, cheeseburgers. It’s so hard to come up with really great vegetarian dishes every night.

We make and eat all these things, veggie style. Spicy chili tastes just as good with no meat, or you can add TVP or morningstar crumbles. My DH makes a fantastic veggie “chicken” paprikash. Boca makes veggie kielbasa and Italian sausages that are pretty good. And there are a zillion different veggie burgers out there.

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Thanks for the input!

Well, first, I wouldn’t call myself vegetarian when I’m obviously not, so you don’t have to worry about that please.

Mark Bittman, a New York cook & writer (his videos are on the NY Times each week & a lot of fun to watch) has written a new vegetarian cookbook. In his preface he talks about how many people are changing their way of eating & getting organic but he’s also coined a new interesting word, flexitarian… for people who are cutting way back on meat, eating organic and once in a while eat meat and fish.

I know fish die in nets and organic chickens don’t die any nicer. And I used to buy kosher thinking it was more humane then I found out what the reality is!

The real problem is transport. (that’s made clear in the Peta videos that are online at Whole Foods.com when John Mackey debated Michael Pollan, The Omnivores’ Dilemma) Pigs and cattle suffer like crazy on the way there… well I don’t want to get into all the gory details. People don’t want to hear it.

Actually, that’s one problem, the other is yes, all those antibiotics… which has been showing up more and more in kids being resistant to… antibiotics.

Thanks Nathalie for that book reference I’ll check it out. Also the websites. So right about the holidays being the wrong time…

Beans and rice Ingrid! :teehee: beans beans and more beans Just kidding, actually I love making things like artichoke/spinach dips and veggie chili and scalloped potatoes, I LOVE vegetables. Cauliflower gratin. You actually find a lot of new vegetable dishes if you stop meat for awhile, it’s pretty fascinating. Funny, it’s that taste of FAT though that we’ve grown to love… and you start missing, esp with the cold weather. That cannot be replaced in tofu.

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Tootie, I didn’t read your post til after I posted. Thank you so much for those tips. Boca? Never heard of them. I grew up on Polish/Czech stuff and it was always meat based. A vegetarian chicken paprikash huh!? That is interesting.

We once traveled through, I dunno, maybe it was Nebraska, the northwest somewhere, and at one point this smell started up and it just got worse and worse and worse. It was a cattle ranch/slaughter house and I couldn’t believe it. I can see how that changed your life.

Can you recommend a substitute veggie burger that’s good? I hear a lot of them are terrible.

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You have to remember that what you are talking about is a HUGE change for your body. Your body has to go through a pretty big process to understand what you are asking of it now. That is probably a lot of the issue. The other issue, is that if you are really getting NO protein then … well… you can’t go without any protein at all. There are LOTS of ways you can get protein though, that don’t just include loading up with tofu products.

The other thing to consider, if you really do want to eat meat but are concerned about humane treatment, is where you get your meat. Stop buying it at walmart or the local grocery store. Go to the old fashioned meat locker (Sam the Butcher!) KNOW where your meat comes from. Nobody’s meat came from walmart… it came from SOMEWHERE. In this country we have a big problem with having NO idea who raised our meat. If you can buy locally that is ideal. If you can buy directly from the source it is even better. Not all farmers are factory farmers and they would love it if you would buy their product. They are hanging often hanging on by the skin of their teeth and everything we can do to help them beat the factory farms is golden.

This is all true of your veggies and such as well. Go to farmer’s markets and local food stands. Get to know the source of the food and you will be less likely to feel guilt over how your food is produced. (and you may be able to encourage them to become more organic in their production processes too!)

This isn’t to discourage you from being Veggie though. I think veggie is ideal, but there are other options if it doesn’t work for you.

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uuh… in defense of Nebraska… we aren’t in the northwest (not that there is anything wrong with the northwest mind you)… we are in the middle…lol.

I would be curious who told you that the sub burgers are terrible. I watched a news story a while back when Burger King decided to start offering veggie burgers and their whole spin on the story was that the burgers were icky compared to a “regular” burger. The texture is DEFINITELY different and you have to be prepared for that. I thought boca burgers were pretty decent but i am not a fan of their “gourmet” burgers. Just the plain ones with regular burger fixings on it. Worked pretty well for me.

Anyway my point there was not to take the word of confirmed carnivores about things that are good and things that aren’t. You will almost always hear the word “yuck” whenever anybody mentions tofu… and the vast majority of those people have never had tofu or haven’t known it when they did.

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I think Boca burgers are the best, but I do agree with brendajos that just the plain Bocas are better than the gourmet ones. DH prefers Morningstar Farms Grillers. We get both of these at our regular chain grocery store in the freezer section. Both these companies also make a lot of other yummy meat substitutes too.

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I am also a big fan of Amy’s foods if you are looking for anything that is prepackaged. I also like some of Kashi’s stuff, though not all of theirs is veggie.

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Remember its not just the protein that you have to look for in other foods its the iron. the weakness you were feeling may have be due to the reduction in iron. For me, I have to eat meat esp during “that” time because I get anemic and meat gives me that extra iron boost i need. so do your research for iron rich foods besides meat to give you energy.

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Making the switch to a more healty and humane diet requires research and some self-education. Your body needs nutrients and you have to learn how to get balanced nutrician from a plant-based diet.

It can be done, quite easily in fact, but you do need to put some thought into it. You need to find recipes for foods that you will actually enjoy eating and that will give you the nutrients your body requires. You may be surprised at how easy that actually is once you know how to go about it.

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I like the Boca Vegan burgers the best, if I’m looking for something more traditionally meat-like. There are also some good veggie burgers which are more bean or rice based - but they don’t have the meat texture thing going. I think Morningstar farms does the best veggie hot dogs. Either the Boca or Morningstar Farms “crumbles” are good substitutes for ground beef in things like chili. I can find these products in my regular grocery store, as well as in WalMart (WalMart shelves them in the freezer section near the breakfast foods).

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Thanks again for the tips on the brands… I’m going to look for them today. I’ll bet Whole Foods has them.

Brenda, yes, I already began trying to buy local as much as possible. Since I’m in NYC there’s a big movement here to do that and there’s a famous/fantastic greenmarket every Sat & Wed downtown that a lot of chefs go to also.

Funny, I noticed Walmart now has an organic food section.

Plus I have a place upstate and there are a bunch of local growers. I met a lady yesterday (funny, in Chico’s clothing store) who lives here in the city and also upstate only 5 miles from me and she told me she goes to this farm and buys their meat… a half a cow at a time which just sounds so gross. But I really am trying to buy local and know where my meat comes from.

(Brenda, are you vegetarian?) (sorry about the Nebraska thing!) I happen to LOVE tofu, esp in some Chinese restaurants, I’ve even gone to “Korea town” here in NY and eaten a whole Korean lunch that consisted of a big pot of freshly made spicy tofu casserole. They serve tiny salty fish on the side. Weird but pretty neat.

That’s very true about the IRON THING. Boy do I know when I’m missing iron, I ususally run over to this Mexican take out and get their black bean soup.
I had big cravings for beets also in the past couple weeks.

I’m planning on getting some books from the library and reading up on this more. Btw, did anyone see the Peta film last night? It had me crying actually, to see the way some of the animals (fox) were being killed. Wow.

Oh, VAknitter… if you hate the texture of meat maybe you should try to stop eating it? I had a black bean burger that was outstanding and I’m going to try tempeh, another version of tofu which I guess you fry. And there’s a lot of stuff, well I mentioned that already, like last night I made chile rellenos, stuffed peppers with cheese and fresh tomato sauce, rice, it was great.

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My 12yo has decided to be vegetarian, and she is doing well with it. for the mst part I M really proud of her.
she does not expect people to make alterntives for her if she is a guest, but she knows how to mke wonderful quick salads and vegie “side-dishes” that she can sustain herself on.

here is a descent protein intro
http://www.vegparadise.com/protein.html
and does anyone here use Fitday.com, it is a GREAT way to see if your vegetable alternaties are meeting your protein requirments. You can even set up Goals for nutrients. I send my kidsere when they start the whole ‘I am eating TO MUCH’ thing.
I have a TON of the books, and I love them, my current fav is “Vegitarian Handbook” A HUGE index of combination proteins, and complete proteins, now if I couold get a book with a descent index of amino acids to balance evenly, that would be COOL
ecb

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I’m not a vegeterian, but I try not to eat too much red meat because I have a blood disorder where I have too much iron. I’ve tried a lot of the veggie burgers never to like them until I tried the Boca Flame Grilled burgers. They have a very similar texture to meat and you almost can’t tell the difference. I don’t like the veggie burgers that are more rice or grain based because I find they get very dry around the edges. Also, the Boca chicken patties are really good, those things pretty much taste the same as regular chicken patties to me. There are some really good meatless products out there but it just takes a little experimentation to see what ones you like.