I have to say that I had a loving, happy daughter who liked me and then one day she turned 15.
:wall: :wall: :wall:
I am glad that we lived through it. :teehee:
I don’t have any advice (mine would have been the same as Cawthraven’s, well put dear! 
)
Keep your chin up! I’m pulling for ya! 
Ouch! Been there and kind of did that (much shorter/less intense groundings). I’ve been bamboozled before. I won’t be done that way again. :teehee:
Just so y’all know…I have a 12yo (soon to be 13yo) son. His personality is WAY different than dd’s. He is so much easier going. I’m keeping my fingers crossed 
that I don’t have to worry about this with him, but from the looks of it, I probably won’t have to. Dd was much, much worse at his age.
Now where is that Amaretto Sour…if I were the drinking type, I would have drank a few by now. :clink: :teehee:
Oh, and BTW, dh asked her to do something and got a nasty reply back…nice way to start, eh? I — will — not — give — in — !!!
I apologize for not making clear exactly what I mean by a parent being a friend. Of course I’m not implying being a friend in the sense a teen friend of theirs would be or someone who declines to hold their child accountable for their negative behaviors, but often times kids tend to see their parents not even so much as parents, but their enemies. Many times a kid will think their parents won’t let them do certain things just because they are mean or they take certain privileges away for absolutely no reason and their image of their parents becomes that of an enemy. I don’t know, I guess it’s easier to say than describe because I know the relationship I have and have always had with my parents and while I always viewed them as my parents, I also viewed them as my friends.
If a parent doesn’t hold a child accountable, that’s not, in my opinion, being a “friend” like parent, that’s just being a lousy parent who doesn’t want to deal with the problems in front of them.
When I think of a friend, I think of a person who is there for you when you need them, a person who will pick you up when you are down, a person who will always be there for you, a person who will guide you in the right direction and tell you honestly when they think you have made a mistake or done something wrong, when you should apologize, etc. There’s no reason a parent cannot also fill that role. Just because a parent can be considered a friend, doesn’t take away from the fact they are still the parent, they still make the rules and there are going to be consequences when those rules are broken.
I guess I mean basically, don’t build up a wall that your child cannot pass…I don’t think it’s wise to take the approach that well, I’m the parent and that’s that. No relationship is one sided and parenting shouldn’t be one sided either.
Back on topic…lol…I’m glad you had the chance to talk to your daughter and hopefully she will realize the seriousness of the situation. Hopefully things will only get better instead of worse and the outcome will be positive. I’ll be thinking of you and hoping all goes well.
WOW
I am going through asimilar thing with my 15yo DD
I agree that being a parent odes not mean being a teen aged friend (yes, yes, yes, you are right…) but to be a TRUE friend (I do not like when you do that, let me know when your willing to be MY friend again)
Taking away gifts and privaleges is needed (Cell phone, I-Pod, fancy Camp, after school events, TV, Radio, Movies, even family outings yes I have gotten a babysitter for a child that acted badly when the family went out or going with me to my summer job at a Summer camp)
but remember, earning back priveleges is a gradual ting
the small ones come first, the big ones LAST.
My 15yo is not living with us after her last day of school this year until she earns the right back. We go to coourt next month to have her temperary guardian set in place, and to have her take the placement exam for Public school. She has been told since she was 8 that ANY drug use will result in her living elsewhere. She pushed that envelope, this is her ONE cance to earn her way back into the family. Once she is allowed to live with us, she has to earn back the right to go to after school activities, to watch movies or TV, or to take drama class.
She has also been stealing, Lieing, and being disrespectful. if she does ANY one thing she looses staying @ school and going to her school trip.
she did not believe me last time I spoke to her, this time she did. I have told all the administrators at the school what she has been doing, so she cannot hide within their 'Support Track" that is in place to help kids get though innapropriate behaviors or troubling times. the problem with it is that the Support staff, is not allowed to discuss what they hear in session with the Dorm parents unless it is life threatening. So the Drinking, Multi partner S*x activity, sneaking off campus, never gets divulged to the dorm parents who are supposed to be MONITORING the kids behavior. I do not tollerate that kind of sneaking around, and coddling. One of the things my daughter has to do to get school activities back, is appologise to my Mother who paid for her Private school this past year, for her breaking the rules and the LAW while at this school.
let me stop rantgin about my own problems
ecb
Hey Demonica…thanks for the clarification. 
There’s so much of that “friend” talk thing out there…I hope I didn’t offend you.
Ecb, wow! My daughter’s issues seem so small compared to your’s. I’m so sorry!!! Hang in there dear. I think it speaks volumes at the steps you are taking.
I have always told my daughter that I love her no matter what. She will never do anything that will take my love away. However, I cannot stand her behavior right now. We told her that she would never treat one of her friends the way she treats us. I told her than when she’s about to speak to us in a nasty tone, to try to stop and imagine herself saying it to her best friend. Who knows…
Anyhow, as I keep saying, y’all are the BEST!
I am sorry you are going trough this. I have 15yo DS and know how things can go at times.
I would also recomend counseling on top of the taking priviledges . I did it and we found it very helpfull. I am glad my Ds can come to me now and tell me what is bothering him without being disrespectfull.
Good luck
I haven’t had time to read all the replies so if I cross over what someone else has said I apologise. I was an educator for a long time, and a parent, and I’ve watched Dr Phil! LOL
Some comments and they are general and not intended towards you as such.
I often hear parents talking about creating rules but I often see parents allowing transgressions of those rules. The child then learns that rules aren’t really rules they are power games and so on.
When you create a rule there should be clear consequences about what will happen when those rules are broken. Whining, crying and tantrums won’t budge you from applying the consequence. At the same time it’s important for a parent to sometimes say “I got that wrong” or “I went too far with that rule” or whatever.
Most parents get difficult periods with their teen.
I would remove the mobile unless she is earning the money to pay for i OR she ‘earns’ the right to have the mobile. If she gets it back and she transgresses a rule about the mobile the account is cut off again.
I may not totally remove the computer time because some…maybe not much…but some…homework etc may be achieved by looking things up BUT I would bring it out into the family living area and chain it if necessary so it can’t be moved.
No, I would not pull her bed out of her room; that’s dehumanising. If you think boot camp is the answer send her to boot camp proper.
I would be wary about the soccer issues and removing them from her.
You are in pain and very hurt and you need to separate (and I mean this in the nicest way hug) discipline tactics that are established to bring about improved behaviour and vengeance.
I would remove some things now, make it clear why they have been removed, how you feel and what expectations you have for her behaviour and demeanour towards you. Let her know that you do expect her to be angry now and resentful (because she will be - so, don’t deny her that ‘understanding’) but that if you find she has tried to work around your rules e.g. getting someone else to establish a mobile account for her and so on, you WILL remove the soccer. But make that one soccer issue first and not the whole lot.
I am sure if you look back at her childhood you know that when you created rules YOU gave her the impression that if she waited it out no punishment really occurred. I think parents can admit that to their teens but add to that…it’s time this pattern stopped and it’s stopping NOW because I think you’re a golden girl and a winner and yet I’m not seeing it and I want to. You are bound to be angry right now but you don’t respect me and I want you to and so we are starting again and THIS time you only get things returned and you ONLY get treats etc when you’ve proven yourself worthy and you shown respect to be me AND yourself.
Point out to her that bad mouthing girls don’t respect themselves; at best they are cloning street gang types and street gang types don’t get appointed captains of teams. Try and talk when you can be calm and if she shouts walk away. Don’t yell back over your shoulder or anything. Walk away. It will be hard but don’t give her YOUR usual responses.
These issues are about management and response. You need to probably correct your management and mean what you say and stick to it. Be reasonable not unreasonable. Don’t go from liberal to jail like - I doubt that’s natural anyway 
Pose reasonable expectations for behaviour and verbal responses and demand (not verbally but by way of your own adherence to what you establish) positive responses.
auburnchick. Just saw your post of:
Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:24 pm
Not sure how far you went with what you said you’re removing but I guess if you’ve said all the soccer is removed you’re rather stuck with that unless you wend your way very very carefully through admitting you may have gone too far. I think you all should write down the expectations and consequences so that there is a clearly established set of ‘by-laws’ (so to speak).
Demonica offered an excellent point I think about parents not really being sound if they don’t teach consequences. Parents need to be mindful that their children will one day enter a workplace where expectations are established and where the workers cannot just think of ‘self’. In a way a family is a community where all must contribute otherwise the community becomes unhealthy.
I think auburnchick you still could admit to your daughter that in some ways you believe you may have failed making her stick to rules earlier in life. That you acted out of love but… And that you DO love her so much that it is love, not punishment, that is driving you now to ensure this time counts!
Anyway…all the best…your latest posts sounds more confident and relieved
This is rather late in the game here, but I just read all the posts :passedout: While I agree with most of the posts on here I have to say I’m surprised at a lot of them too.
As was stated earlier the things you are taking away from her are PRIVILEGES, not Rights.
Yes, even the soccer. (sorry ladies) She won’t last too long on a soccer team if she is this bad now, if she learns her lessons now, she’ll have a much better chance of making it down the road.
I grew up in a fairly strict household and while I wasn’t a demon-child, I wasn’t an angel either. But I did have a healthy respect for my parents. They did not put up with ANYTHING. And I am a decent adult now. 
I agree with everything you and your hubby are doing in this situation, removing the bed, wow, that takes guts. Good for you!! :cheering:
It is so great to hear that there are parents out there that give a damn about how their children grow up. And are willing to not bend and give in. I live in a part of the country that is grossly overpopulated with rude, obnoxious, selfish, disgusting children.
I pray that this all works out in the end and I’m sure it will, just hang in there. You can do it.
I sincerely applaud you and your husband. You are wonderful parents, just know that. You deserve to be treated with respect, most importantly by your children.
You are in my prayers.
ballsmom. The issue to do with soccer for me is about degrees and degrees of issues and the fine line between punishment and vengeance.
I know as a teen girl I was goody two shoes in friends houses and loved their mums even while I was in a battle with my own.
Do you take away something where a teen MAY be at their best and may derive a lot of self esteem from?
That’s such a hard call. IF the soccer removal had been threatened in the past then, yes, I can see sense if removing it now.
If it hasn’t I can see arguments for and against it’s removal. If auburnchick and hubby have already said it’s gone pending dramatic changes then it’s a done deal but those dramatic changes are better served having visual substance e.g. a list of rights/responsibilities - on both sides.
If what happens in soccer could be used as an illustrator e.g. honey, do you remember how you dealt with x or y on the team that day? That was fabulous and we’d like to see that here too…
Then some argument exists to see soccer continue.
I don’t know enough to say either one way or another, but again, if the girl has been told it’s gone then its gone, but one presumes she has the chance to recoup this. Not “just” wait out like perhaps before until her parents cave but actively demonstrate change. If there are a couple of months prior to that then this is achievable and perhaps some community work could be added to schedules in order to ‘up’ the ante on the privilege being restored.
I’ve seen Dr Phil mind you tell parents to remove every single toy from a child and only give one item out at a time pending behavioural changes.
But teens are young adults and if you believe deep down your teen is a good person gone astray, I think some latitude exists. Again, I don’t know enough.
I had battles with my own teen but they didn’t have all the toys some kids now have. They didn’t have a mobile until they left home to work. They didn’t have their own computer (we shared one) and so on.
I suspect we’re becoming a culture of giving our kids these incredible technical privileges as a matter or course. People argue mobiles are intended only for emergency scenarios but how many people actually configure the mobile to just deliver that?
I recall seeing one Big Brother series outcome where a young teen girl had spent two thousand dollars on votes via her mobile (that her father had to pay). Why was a 13 year old given such latitude on a phone service to begin with?
I know we’re moving into different topics now but I am very passionate about teaching kids online safety and overall I think we’re way behind in teaching out kids to use technology well. So many are becoming slaves to the mobile or similar rather than knowing it should serve them and defined usages.
I just want to make sure y’all understand what we told our daughter today about soccer.
First of all, she obviously has talent. She is a very highly respected player in the state and has received recognition for her efforts. I would never totally deny her what she dreams of. When her local team broke up, we allowed her to join a team that is 2 1/2 hours away. For two years, we have taken her to practice 2-3 times per week, leaving right after school and not getting home until 11-11:30pm. My husband has taken off early most of those nights. So obviously, we would not take it all away from her without giving her a chance.
We took away the plans we had made to travel around the state to playoffs. We took away plans to let her attend one soccer camp. These are things that we would have had a hard time paying for but would have scrounged up the money somehow. It was made very clear to her that if she can clean up her act and is sincere, then she will slowly get her privileges back, including the soccer ones, although the camp is a definite no. If she can somehow become more respectful (with understandable glitches here and there as we’re all human and therefore not perfect), then we will gladly let her continue in the sport.
BUT, she has used this talent against us ever since she started playing competitively at the age of 7. We have always been careful not to “upset” her before games and on tournament weekends. She’s basically the queen bee.
We created a monster…
We have, at times, taken away everything BUT soccer. And for long lengths of time too. The closest we ever came to taking away the soccer for good was when she created a myspace account after being forced to shut one down and after being instructed NOT to create one again. That was the closest we came, and we were serious, and she knew it. I know for a fact that she has not created another account of any kind because she knew we were serious.
However, she still continued to be disrespectful, turning it up many notches each week.
Obviously, we’ve got to use something that matters to her the most.
Would it hurt me if her soccer future was affected? You betcha. But do I want her being able to hold down a job in the future (or perhaps not get kicked off a future world cup team :teehee: because she was disrespecful to the coaches)?? No.
One of the biggest wrongs we can do our children is to enable them to be irresponsible adults. They develop habits/patterns while they are young. She is so used to talking to us the way she does that she can’t even hear the disrespect in her voice. That’s pretty sad…but with much prayer and perseverance, we’ll make it through.
The soccer truly is not about vengence. Dh and I talked about many things today, but this really is one of the last things that we haven’t done.
As far as self-esteem, I agree that this certainly helps her self-esteem. But what good is that if she turns around and uses it to put me down, thus taking me down a notch? Y’all have no idea what I have had to put up with over the last few years. Put-downs about my clothes, my hair, the way I talk on the phone, and even my knitting. Everything from how I spend my money to how I wear my makeup. She is totally out of control and so judgmental. I can’t stop her from having her opinions, but there’s something called maturity and respect that stops us from expressing negative opinions.
The technology thing is basically our gift to our children. I LOVE technology, and my job (while going to school) is as a school’s computer tech. I want my children to have the skills to function in a world that has technology. We don’t buy extras during the year and save it all for Christmas. Cell phones were given as a way to communicate with our children, who lead very active after-school lives and as a way for them to enjoy a bit of life. But they know that is just what it is … a privilege and not a right. The laptops were for the long car trips we make to soccer tournaments (each can watch their own movies) as well as school stuff. Plus, I got a GREAT deal on them, and I can’t resist sales.
Anyhoo, those are just my opinions. I do value y’all’s so much! Thanks for such an interesting, enlightening discussion!!!
nathalie. Thanks for the additional explanation on the soccer.
And I applaud you for saying this:
We created a monster…
Yes you did and we reap what we sew. When she created the new MySpace account it was when she thought you really serious that she backed down. I would have cut out the soccer then. She transgressed and you essentially enabled her to continue and although she may not have done MySpace again she has probably moved laterally into bad mouthing etc.
I think we need to ensure we pose consequences that we know we’ll stick to. If we said, if you do x you will never be allowed to wash your hair again! we know that is something we won’t adhere to. So, its really important to ensure we threaten what we know we will carry out.
Sounds to me like you have the soccer matter in check BUT that, yes, allowing her to rule the roost prior to games etc has generated the notion that the world revolves around her and that she is to be ‘catered to’. Now she needs to learn to cater to the community of family. If you sat down together and calculated all the hours spent in driving her back and forth to games and she was hit with the fact it totaled a full year of your life - or whatever - she would probably get a shock!
You could of course pitch that you will take her to games - or going to games from now on is contingent on her helping out practically - say if she located jobs in the local area (jobs you approve of like walking dogs or whatever) to help pay the fuel costs. Maybe its time she realised just how much expense etc has gone into your support of her soccer.
How are you feeling right now…strong and relieved?
As far as paying for stuff, we have that covered. Because of her hectic schedule, she cannot work during the school year, unless it’s the occasional babysitting, mowing my yard, or washing my car (I do not pay for regular chores and my children get regular allowances as a way to learn to handle money, save, and tithe). BUT, she does have the money concept down. Watching us live hand-to-mouth has taught her that. She often pays for things that are extra (extra clothes, friends’ gifts, things for her dog), and she knows the value of a dollar.
The myspace thing – the first time was an issue where a friend created it for her, and she was told not have another one. Because a friend created it for her, we didn’t punish her. We simply explained the dangers of it and explained that she was not allowed to have one. When we discovered the second one, we didn’t feel like we could take away the soccer because (as you initially questioned), we felt that would be too drastic of a first repercussion. But we scared the bajeepers out of her – hence her avoidance of it to the point where she doesn’t even go to the site to look at other people’s spaces.
How do I feel right now?? Mixed emotions. I’m dreading the call to her friends’ (twins) mom – the ones she’s supposed to go out of town with after school ends. But I’m hoping the mom will understand. She’s already raised two girls. And I absolutely dread what is going to be said when dh tells her coach she won’t be going to state cup in a couple of weeks.
I guess I’m just nervous. I’m rooting so hard for her to make good choices. And it really is hard to see your child crying (yes, on the bed)…sobbing. I almost feel like what a parent of a drug addict must feel like. You know that the addict (in my case, my daughter is addicted to making other people feel bad) will hate you for taking away their drug, but in the end they will be much better.
Wow…when you decide to have children, you don’t really picture them as teenagers, do you???
Hi again. I think you and I differ Nathalie in some respects about the technology matter … however, I think on the issue of your daughter openly critiquing you on each and every element. Like another poster suggested, I would be seeking counseling if it’s that bad because underneath all that there is a single message and locating that may be important to recovery in the situation.
I used to dream of a buddy I could talk to and chat to about life and the world when he was born. We can do that on and off but his city business orientation is a distance from my somewhat small town life. When we are together we can fight like nothing on earth but then I laugh with my son perhaps more than with anyone else I know. But he’s very different to me and frankly in some respects I am very glad of that!
Parenting is a challenge but I find, even now and at my age, being a child/daughter is also a challenge!! arrggghhhhhh 
Auburnchick
Take a deep breath and realize love has to be tough at times. I know the pain of a child hurting you… I know the pain of a child crying… but know in your heart it is your responsibility to train up a child in the way he should go.
I know you believe this. Don’t worry about the parent or the coach… they aren’t the ones responsible for your daughter. You & your DH are. Believe in what you are doing. Don’t let any doubt cross over to her or the parents. Let your doubts come here & discuss w/ your DH…
You are doing what needs to be done. You aren’t forcing them into child labor. You aren’t beating them. You are providing food, shelter, clothing. Education I’m sure is high on your list.
Let Him help you when you’re down… He has very broad shoulders.
Bear Hugs…
Auburnchick,
I still stand by what you did- I think it is wonderful that you care soo much for your daughter.
Since the bed thing seems to stick out to some- I cannot help recall another parent who also removed the bed- for different reasons but to prove a point. That would be none other then the Cosby Show. Yes! The nortorious parents who we all (I think we can agree) seemed to find punishments that fit the crime.
In this case, Theo didn’t know the value of money; so, they created the real world within their home, and he had to earn it all back- you know what the first thing he purchased was- his bed.
I think parents need to address their children as they see fit. I think you sound like a wonderful parent and I agree with Snowbear- do not worry what the others think- I think you’ll find the coaches will back you more than anything.
auburnchick, no, no, no offense taken! I didn’t really realize until it was pointed out, my meaning of being a friend to your child wasn’t made clear…lol…I had so many things going through my head as I was typing and my daughter asking me tons of questions, I kind of got sidetracked and didn’t offer a good explanation…lol…It’s a delicate balance, indeed.
auburnchick - now you’ve explained the soccer thing I totally agree with you. Stay strong!
Wow! I am absolutely humbled at how many people have read this topic, as well as how many responses there have been.
It’s clearly obvious that we all struggle, whether we’re the child (even as adults) or the parent.
I truly appreciate y’all’s feedback. What am AMAZING group of people…so non-judgmental, intelligent, and rational!!!
Thanks for being a wonderful sounding board.