Need help understanding the instructions for a Top Down Raglan sweater with short rows

Hello! I am new to this group and sort of new to knitting and I am worried I got in over my head with a pattern. I really hope someone here might be able to help me. I understand how to do the individual techniques in the pattern, and am good at finding videos, etc. when I need to, but I am so confused reading these instructions. The pattern is by Katherine Hannibal Sweater with Specks

I began with a provisional cast on in a scrap yarn per the directions and constructed one round, placing markers at the raglan points as directed. I began at center back and knit 11(half back), purled 3 (raglan), knit 2 (sleeve), purled 3 (raglan), knit 24 (front), purled 3 (raglan), knit 2 (sleeve), purled 3 (raglan), knit 11 (half back).

Now this is where I am confused. The next step is to work short rows along the neckline, over the sleeves and partly on the front piece. It says to also wrap and turn over the raglan seams. For Row 1 I am supposed to knit 9 and to increase at the raglan seams, then turn. But since I knit 11 before reaching the raglan on the first round, how will I reach the raglan seam in order to increase as the instructions say? Won’t I be stopping and turning two stitches before I reach the raglan? The wording just does not make sense to me from Row 1 through Row 6.

I would be so grateful if someone could spell this out to me with a little more clarity. Note I am knitting the second size. I understand how to do a short row stitch, how to increase, but just don’t get what they are asking of me…Thank you SO much for anyone who can shed some light on this.

Welcome to the forum!
The short rows begin with knitting sts on the back for rows 1 and 2 but by row 3 have extended into the sleeves. The first two short rows won’t have increases because as you note, they won’t extend to the raglan markers.
The following rows extend the short rows into the front. Work the increases each side of the raglan markers but don’t count the increases as part of the 4 or 6 sts after the last turn.
It might make it easier if you mark the placement of the turns now so that you don’t inadvertently count the increases as you work the short rows.

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Thank you SO much for the response to my question. Okay, so even though it says “REMEMBER increases at the raglan markers and pattern at the raglan seams” for the instructions at Row 1 and Row 2, I really just don’t need that information until I reach Row 3 and onward, right? (This is the reason I was so confused…it seems odd and confusing for the pattern to mention that before it is relevant).

Great tip about marking the placement of the turns. I will definitely do this!

Yes, this note applies most directly starting at row 3. It does say to remember the increases when the raglan markers are passed and since you won’t pass the raglans on rows 1 & 2, you don’t have to worry about the increases. I guess the designer just wanted to get all the notes and cautions out of the way in one place.
Have fun working this sweater! It sounds well within your understanding but if further questions come up, please come back and ask.

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Thanks again! I feel better proceeding knowing that there is a resource like this with helpful people such as yourself. :slight_smile:

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We’re happy to be your back-up!

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Just to add to the helpful advice from @salmonmac, I have just helped a friend to knit this very pattern! I think the yoke is quite tricky because, unlike many other raglan designs, the broken rib pattern means that you will be working a different combination of stitches / increases at the raglan within the same row, in order to maintain the pattern. This is because, when working short rows, the row number changes as you cross the midline at the back ( end of round marker).

We found it helpful to draw out the short rows as a visual map and number each section as the corresponding row (as it crossed the midline , and whether it was RS or WS) to make sure she did the purl and/or increase on the appropriate section.

I hope this makes sense! Happy to discuss further if you’d find it helpful.

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The other thing to watch out for in this pattern is that it’s a translation and some of the instructions appear contradictory. You’re told to repeat short rows 3 and 4 a total of two times. ( Patterns usually tell you to work certain rows a total number of times or to repeat rows a specified number of times, which is additional to the original instruction.)
In this pattern, combining repeat and total in the same sentence is misleading.
Looking at the stitch counts before and after the short rows reveals that the designer wants you to work the rows a total number of times, not repeat them. So in total, you only have 5 pairs of short rows to work, the first of which does not cross the raglan so should be straight forward.

I’ve been through the pattern again (I really think the designer should have explained the short rows better than to state to stay in pattern!!)
I’ve drawn a visual to show how to stay in pattern. The picture should be read from bottom to top as if you’re knitting it, and the arrows show the direction you’re knitting in. When the arrows point to the left, you will be working the right side where the body is knit, when they point to the left, you’re working the wrong side where the body is purled.
The numbers on the far left of the page refer to the short rows as described in the pattern.

The numbers on the arrowed lines refer to the rows in relation to the raglan pattern. Odd rows ( all circled) represent row one of the raglan pattern where you will increase AND work the p1, k1, p1 raglan on the right side, and k1, p1, k1 raglan on the wrong side.
The even numbered rows represent row 2 of the raglan pattern where there is no increase and the three raglan stitches are worked plain ie knit on right side and purl on wrong side.

You will note that how you work the raglan differs on each side of the midline / end of round marker. For example, row 4 on the left of the diagram is being worked from the wrong side: it’s an even number section so you will purl through any raglan stitches. As you pass the midline, this becomes row 3 where you must increase and work row 1 of the raglan pattern ( increase and rib) - You are still working from the wrong side so you will reverse the twist in the increase and work the raglan as k1, p1, k1.

After the next turn, the row becomes row 4 from the right side so you just knit through the raglan. After the midline marker, this becomes row 5 from the right side where you work an increase and raglan pattern from the right side which is p1, k1, p1.

When you are back to the midline at section 10, the pain ends and you are back on track to start row 11 in the round where odd numbers are raglan pattern row 1 and even numbers are raglan pattern row 2.

After the short rows, the rest of the pattern is pretty straightforward!! So don’t despair!
You only have 10 rows

s to concentrate really hard!!

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I just read through all of this and my head is swimming…(yikes, at least it is only 10 rows like you say). I think that chart will be really useful. Thank you for taking the time to create it! I am going to reread this along side the pattern and try to conceptualize it. I may be back for clarification. I am just waiting for a small length circular needle to come in the mail. I had started this project on double pointed needles but don’t trust myself to keep it all straight with all of those intersecting needles.

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When you say broken rib pattern, are you referring to the raglan (where it says knit 3, purl 2, knit 3)? That is so great that you know this pattern…these first 10 rows are going to be a little scary. :sweat_smile:

I’m an experienced knitter and I was daunted when helping my friend!!! It took a while to work it out!
What I meant by broken rib is the pattern that makes up the raglan three centre stitches. It is worth enclosing these in stitch markers and view them as ‘sacred’,:rofl::rofl:. We coined this term to make sure that my friend always made the raglan increases outside of the stitch markers.

The raglan pattern is p1, k1, p1 on row one - this is a rib pattern. (PLUS the increases either side of the raglan 3 stitches). And row 2 is knit when in the round - this breaks the rib.
The designer only states to stay in pattern when working short rows. You will be turning, and therefore needing to reverse the raglan pattern when you’re on the wrong side.

I suggest that you walk this part of the pattern through in your head, and when you’re happy that you understand the pattern and the drawing, just follow it blindly and tick off each section as you work it.

The other thing to consider is how you will work the short rows. The designer implies that this is wrap and turn but my friend was happier with German short rows.

If you want to work GSRs, you need to add one extra stitch to the pattern instructions (because the wrap is worked on the next stitch at the turn point, and the German short row manoeuvre is worked on the last stitch worked at the turn point). So for your size, this would be to work 10 on short row 1, 20 on short row 2, ( this is 10 either side of the midline), and then 7 past the turn on the next 2 pairs of short rows, and 5 past the turn on the last 2 pairs.
As @salmonmac advised, put a temporary marker at each turn point and count from there , and then you won’t have to worry about the impact of the increases on the stitch counts.
To reassure you, the daunting part is getting your head around the pattern! Once you know what to do, it’s really quite manageable!! Good luck :four_leaf_clover::four_leaf_clover: