How do I do this stitch?

I am trying a Japanese stitch pattern with this description

I am getting it wrong resulting in strands of yarn crossing the stitches on the right side. I put the right needle behind the first stitch to work a purl into the second stitch, but the yarn in front to do the purl, then moving the yarn back to work the ktbl, leaves the strands crossing the right side.

If I move the first stitch onto a cable needle and work the second stitch, drop it off, and then work the first stitch and drol it off, I get a decent result. But the description is saying these two stitches can swap places by working both whilst still on the left needle, then dropping both off.

How do I do this please?

Sorry I’m not sure. I have the Japanese stitch bible and some of those stitches! I’ve not been brave enough to try yet.

I’d make a little swatch and try any way you think works and see what happens.

Are there any youtubes or projects on ravelry with notes that can explain a bit?

Might be something here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSQAqdgajBc&list=PLlgIOFvWzehuArAKd8dCbXpjMf5trES1H

Or here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p1DMGmlm1w

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Does the stitch pattern give a photo of the resulting stitch? Can you give us the source of the stitch page you posted, either a book or an online site?

Thanks @YarnPlease that’s helpful but not quite it because I have the other publication of the book. However it gives me an idea that I can search for the title of the book and pattern number where this stitch appears and possibly find something.
You should try one of the patterns, they look daunting but aren’t so bad once you zero in on one.
Yes I am just swatching with spare yarn. I had started a swatch on finer yarn but changed once I realised I had an error.

@salmonmac
It’s pattern 129 from 250 Japanese Knitting Stitches the original pattern bible by Hitomi Shida

Here’s a pic. It’s the row above the row that makes a bar across the stitches and there are 2 of these mirrored with a ktbl between them. It travels the knit stitch out at the bottom of a panel of 5 stitches (ktbl, p, ktbl, p, ktbl) an the 2 mirrored are switched at the top of the panel to bring the knits back in to a 3 column.
So it should look like a leaning knit stitch or rather a leaning twisted knit stitch and it moves a purl from kne id to the other. I get my yarn strand on top though.

https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/129n

This appears to me to be a 1/1 lpc. I can easily do it as written but I use Norwegian purls routinely. A Norwegian purl leaves the yarn at the back of the work; it’s for Continental knitters. I know of no way for an English style knitter to work Norwegian purls. If you’re not comfortable purling this way I’d recommend reordering the stitches on the needle then working them. If you search knitting 1/1 lpc you’ll gets lots of videos.

The movement to do the Norwegian purl is exaggerated in this video but you can see how the purl is formed. I just now worked a WS row using Norwegian purls on my current WIP before trying this way of doing a 1/1 lpc on what’s handy.

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Full disclosure: I don’t consider my way of knitting superior to other ways, it just works for me. I can’t knit English style, my dominant right hand won’t cooperate to handle the yarn and my brain says why all that unnecessary movement anyway? I’ve never had good dexterity in my fingers either. I therefore I have no opinion on whether this would be useful to anyone but offer it for consideration, just in case. If an English style knitter wishes to do the purl as indicated this might help.

I remembered seeing this.

Norwegian Purl for English Knitters: 9:41 <-- click here to go to where she shows it.

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Either of GG’s solutions are likely best. For myself, I would choose to re-order the sts without a cable needle then proceed.
I’ve tried this and do get a bar across the lower portion of the stitch. It minimal but still there.

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Thank you all.

@YarnPlease your tip did help. I couldn’t find a pattern video for the pattern I am making but as the stitch bible lists all the patterns containing that stitch I went through looking for various patterns. Anyway, I found one with this stitch, unfortunately the video wasn’t really helpful as it was hard to see the maneuvering of the yarn and needles and I did see the stitch was not completed correctly, a knit instead of a ktbl. Even so I am glad of the tip and I will try to remember in future how to look for stitches if I have a similar query. Thanks.

GG. I can Norwegian purl should I want/need to, I can’t say I see the point or benefit of it in this case. I know it helps you immensely which is fabulous though. I did try it (mny times) with following the book directions for the stitch and the Norwegian purl made no difference, still strands across the right side of the fabric because it is the second stitch being worked and although the working yarn is held to the back it is still brought forward by the right needle and in front of the first stitch. I find the Norwegian purl also makes my stitches pretty big as they distort with the maneuver of the needle. Maybe practise helps with tension there. I tend to knit with very little distortion to the stitches and get picky about a stitch stretching out.
You said you managed this stitch as written in the book though, so I am really intruiged how you did that, you left both stitches on the left needle, did not change the position and worked the leaning purl cable successfully? I don’t understand how.
On the other information you gave me - fabulous help on the 1/1lpc .brilliant, thank you! I did not know what 1/1lpc meant but it is exactly the result asked for with this stitch. From what I can see on videos the only way to produce it is to change the order of the stitches by removing them from the needle either onto a cable or just holding them secure to reposition. The description in my book is to work this without taking them off the needle BUT I don’t see any way how so I will do what was working which was using a removable stitch marker to take the first stitch off whilst i work the second stitch. I have done this before with cables an travelling stitches and am comfortable with it.
Thanks again .

@salmonmac thank you so much for trying it out. You’re always very helpful and it is appreciated.

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I know I did a crossed stitch earlier but now I’m having problems with the purl. Maybe I thought I was doing a purl but it was actually a knit. I’ve had my coffee since then. :wink: I can do it, it’s not as simple as I thought. I’d reorder the stitches and work the purl as the first stitch near the tip. I’d really like to know how the author of the book purls. That could be something worth exploring.

Norwegian purling isn’t better always for everyone and I had some problems the first times I tried it. For me the keys to successful N. purling were looser tension while knitting (I needed to loosen up anyhow) and keeping the yarn between my forefinger and the needle as short as possible, and making sure I work near the tips. I pick the stitches. I cannot execute the purl ‘correctly’ as Arne of Arne and Carlos does it because I can’t hold the needles the way he does. We all find what works and that’s what matters. If it ain’t broke it don’t need fixin’. What you do works and so I say keep doing it.

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I’ll get round to it. The last few projects have been lace, lace, stranded and lace, so I’m itching to do a mosaic next.

Let us know how you get on, and looking forward to seeing pictures.

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I was so intrigued after reading about the Japanese stitch issue, I went and bought the book. I am very excited to try out some of the patterns in a shawl.

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I have been knitting with a local group and found out a couple of things I didn’t know. Kitchener stitch is the same as grafting, also the way I do continental stitch is the same as left handed knitting. I knit both right handed English style and then come back on the purl row Continental style. It means I do not have to turn my work so no twisted yarns. I am self taught knitter

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I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. The patterns are so pretty and a nice challenge when you’re jn the mood for some focused work.

I can work the purl row on stockinette without turning, I do it frequently for short rows on sock heels and some other situations. I’ve done short rows this way for so long that when I do turn the work for short rows I have to think about where the yarn should be for German short row turns. I find knitting English left handed tiring so don’t do it for longer rows as a rule. It is handy sometimes to see the front of the work while working the WS row. Working WS knits for purls on the front is very difficult for me when working without turning so if I have to do that I’ll almost always turn the work even if there aren’t many stitches. One problem I have with English style other than my right hand just doesn’t handle the yarn well is all the moving from back to front to back. My yarn is rarely in front of my work. I’m a picker so I have to stop and think about how what I do translates into wrapping the yarn on the needle. I get the same result, I just don’t do an actual wrapping of the yarn with my fingers. My fingers don’t do much at all actually. Calling grating Kitchener stitch really bugs me. It wasn’t invented for or by Kitchener, knitters had been grafting sock toes long before he was on the scene. He does deserve credit for requiring seamless sock toes for enlisted men. The way grafting is taught in general is horrible IMO. When I finally realized you ‘do the opposite first’ on any stitch then I could graft anything without the ridiculous mantras. What I mean is, look at the stitch. Will it end up that you made a knit? Go into the existing stitch purlwise first, it will come off the needle knitwise. Making a purl? Go into the existing stitch knitwise first and take it off the needle purlwise. Grasp that and the rest is easy peasy except for the tension thing. lol

I kitchener/graft a lot. I consider it one of the most important techniques Knitter’s can learn. I never listen to any mantra at all. I merely read the stitches as they present, keeping in mind what would be happening if I were actually knitting that row. So ribs, garter stitch, etc. its all the same to me. You just have to keep in mind that what you are actually doing is filling in a missing row. That helps me visualize it…

As for terminology, I kind of sympathize. I get sick & tired of chasing down new-to-me terms, which after lots of internet search time turns out to be something not new at all. Something I ran across decades & decades ago, usually. But someone recently made up a name for it. – or worse, claimed it as their own & named it after themselves even tho its old as the hills.

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