Confused by Wrap & Turn and Markers

Hello fellow knitters!

I have run into a problem and I’m not the only one who has a problem with this pattern. I feel better knowing this. I paid 7 dollars for a pattern and can’t get the attention of the author, except to have him take my money. No replies to my pleas for help so I’m here!

It’s the Men’s BIG Shawl Collar Sweater on Ravelry. I am not allowed to post any links right now because the message when I hit Submit New Thread says I have 0 posts and asked me to remove it. Should be easy to find though.

When it comes to the collar, he wants us to pick up 134 sts (for the size I’m making which is XL), with markers at sts 53 and 81 so that the back of the collar is between the two markers.

Now the instructions get weird. He says:

Work in P2, K2 ribbing for 4” (20 rows), then start short row shaping for shawl collar.

Short row tip:
If you look below you can see that before you wrap and turn the stitches increase in multiples of 3 stitches.
Even if you are off on the number of stitches you pick up, just follow in multiples of 3 stitches and you will
get the same results.[COLOR=“Magenta”] You will only do the short row shaping until you reach the marker for the back. [/COLOR]SO if
you don’t want to lug around the pattern, just remember knit to the last multiple of 3 sts and work only to
you reach the markers for the back.

But then the instructions start like this:

[COLOR=“Magenta”]Rows 1 & 2: Rib to last 3sts, wrap and turn.
Rows 3 & 4: Rib to last 6sts, wrap and turn.
Rows 5 & 6: Rib to last 9sts, wrap and turn.
Rows 7 & 8: Rib to last 12sts, wrap and turn.[/COLOR]

and continues to rows 33 & 34.

Now I have several questions,
First: Which stitch do I wrap? The 3rd or the 4th and from the end of the entire row or from the marker?

Second: Sometimes the 3rd st or 6th or 9th (etc.) st is a p and sometimes a k. Sometimes they are inbetween a p and a k so which one do I wrap and which direction do I wrap it? I’m having enough trouble trying to figure out exactly what a wrap and turn should look like at the end. I’ve done it before but long time ago and have forgotten. I looked up several videos and all of them do it on either an entirely k row or an entirely p row.

Third: If he says we are only to do short rows[COLOR=“Magenta”] to the back marker[/COLOR], what about the other side? He never says to do anything like rejoining the yarn to the other side.

Fourth: Is the back of the collar supposed to stay only 4" long?

So far all I’ve heard from other people who have made this that they just did something that ended up looking okay because the instructions confused them, too. I have yet to hear from anyone who actually followed the instructions and got the proper results. I think this is because they seem impossible to make sense of.

Good luck and hope someone can decipher!

Thanks for being here!


These cam be confusing. Being consistent with which stitch you wrap makes it easier. Technically, work till there are 3sts on the left hand needle for row1 and 2. Wrap and turn the [I]next [/I]stitch. In the same manner, work until there are 6sts on the left hand needle for rows 3 and 4, wrap the [I]next[/I] stitch on the left hand needle and so on.
I find this an easier way to do short rows, less fiddley:

I just make sure that I move the yarn so that it’s in the correct postion for the next stitch. I’ll have to try this for ribbing when I get home and report back.

The idea of the short row is to give you more rows across the back of the neck so that the back of the neck is deeper. Ignore the markers and just slip them for the short rows. You’ll be knitting across almost the entire 138sts at least to begin. The markers will tell you where to stop when you get close to finishing the short rows…

:hug: Thank you very much, SalmonMac, I understand a lot better now! My hubby thanks you too. He’s been so patient waiting for a sweater! xx

Say, did you try it on k2 p2 rib yet? It’s hard for me to know which direction to do the wrap if it’s between a k and a p because if I wrap it for k if the nx st is a p, then it doesn’t actually ‘wrap’. I’m about to just yo for each ‘wrap’ and then k2tog or p2tog at the end when I’m supposed to ‘hide’ the wraps.

I tried the w&t on the k2p2 rib. When you k2 and come to a purl, move the yarn forward, slip the purl to the right needle, yarn back. slip the stitch back to the left needle, turn. That gives a wrap and will avoid a hole at the turn. I’m afraid that a yarn over will just make a larger hole.

When you p2 and come to a knit, yarn back, slip, yarn forward, slip stitch back to the left needle, turn.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I love you, lol!:muah:

Well, at least VERY appreciative. Thanks! :woot:

Yes, I am that whateveritis that I couldn’t figure that out for myself. Have a great day! :knitting:

Well, see if it works for you. I got a wrap on the wrong side that also had to be knit together on that side. It all worked, just an extra step to clean up the wrong side. (or you could leave it. It’s not glaring and it is the wrong side.)

Ok I will calmly go about life and wait and see. :whistle:

But I tore the thing apart already and was going to give up and set the world on fire,:frog: but now I have new hope and different yarn. So, I’m going back in. It’ll be a little while before I get to that part. I also have to make my dh a watch cap. It’s getting cold here! lol So the cap first and then the sweater. I will make a note of the wrong side thingie. It’s just that I was so upset that I couldn’t make it work that the hope went a bit overboard.

Going calmly now…

[SIZE=“1”][COLOR=“DarkSlateGray”]not really, I’m still giddy! lol[/COLOR][/SIZE]

:cheering: :woohoo: :woot:

Guess What, Mac! I just finished the collar! I wish we had a camera. I am so happy. Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!:hug: :muah:

I’m thrilled! So happy for you and of course, for your husband too. May he be cozy, warm and elegant.

Amen to that! xx