Untwisting provisional CO sts w/pics

OK, so I just responded to the first post about provisional CO by licata519. So, I know how to do each method of provisional CO. My two questions concern dealing with the twisted sts in the provisional CO method that is on this site.

[color=green]Here’s my first question: Does anyone else besides me deal with the twisted CO sts LATER ON when they come back to them rather than immediately in the first row following CO?[/color] Just curious…'cause I’m nutty that way!

Though I’m accustomed to spotting a twisted st and know how to untwist it, I have a hard time recognizing twisted CO sts when I work that first row. Somehow they alternate back and forth, one st being twisted, the next not. But, I can’t tell which are the twisted ones since the leading part of the loop is always in front. So I don’t deal with it until I later come back to work the live sts when it’s easier to tell.

When I come back later on and work the live CO sts, I can then see immediately which CO sts are twisted and work those through the back loop. [color=green]So, here’s my second question: Now why couldn’t I tell which ones were twisted when I worked that first row after casting on!!![/color] Maybe I should be content that the way I do it is still correct and doesn’t take any more time. …Heck, I’m not even going to use any provisional COs anytime soon in my upcoming projects. But, being the perfectionist that I am :oops:, I’m curious as all get out!
Darn my curiosity! :wall: :wall:

So I guess that my questions are not so much for help as they are for discussion purposes. :?eyebrow:
Well… OK, the second question is for help. Anyone? Anyone?

I miss twisted stitches just because I’m not paying attention. If I watch as I’m knitting, I can spot them immediately: the back end of the loop is further right and thus must be knit through the back loop. I had that experience last night after I frogged something a few inches and re-inserted the needle in what ever way the loops opened more easily. I swear, it was alternating normal knitting and ktbl. Drove me crazy! But it was only one row that I had to contend with, thankfully.

I guess my advice is to watch as you knit. If you still accidentally knit a twisted stitch the normal way, you’ll notice the twist right away and can unknit and redo it. And, it’s just one row that you have to watch.

I haven’t really noticed twisted stitches on provisional cast on, but that doesn’t mean they’re not there. When I come to a twisted stitch–usually from frogging as Angelia said–if feels different when I knit it, so it makes me take a closer look and correct it. Not much help, I guess.

When I do all my other knitting besides the CO, I can tell which ones are twisted. I did a little swatch with provisional CO last night while writing my post to see if once again I couldn’t tell which CO sts were twisted. I couldn’t! I use combined knitting on my ribbing, so I twist and untwist sts all the time. It’s easy to spot a stitch where the front loop is the left one and therefore twisted. In provisional CO when I do the first row, all the leading loops are the right ones, which translates to “not twisted.” However, when I come back to them, I see the following pattern of leading loops: “…left, right, left, right,…” So, they must’ve been twisted all along.

Hmm…, so now I just need to do another sample and figure out whether the first stitch is twisted or not when I do it my way (and untwist them later on). That way I’ll know without seeing it what to do starting with that first stitch if I do it the normal way (and untwist them immediately). I’ll have to come back later on today and reveal my findings. :XX:

Summary: the first CO stitch is [color=orange]twisted[/color]. So…

When untwisting CO sts in the first row after CO:
1. even number of CO sts: repeat the foll patt: K1, K1 TBL
2. odd number of CO sts: repeat foll patt: K1 TBL, K1

When untwisting CO sts later on in your knitting (as in my sample) you’re starting at a different end:
1. even/odd number of CO sts: repeat foll patt: K1 TBL, K1.

I’m sure that this information must bore most people to tears, and some of you are dying to reply "WHO THE H*#@ CARES! :roflhard: I guess that’s why I’m a math teacher. :rollseyes: Anyway… as promised, I did a little sample today to figure out the order of the twisted stitches and when to untwist them, whether that’s in the first row after CO or later on in your knitting. I took pictures of my sample in which I left the stitches that were twisted alone to determine my answer. Note: my sample contained an even # of sts. I’ll talk about an odd# of CO sts further down.

The first picture is of the entire sample upside down. The stitches at the top are the alternately twisted provisional CO sts, ready to be worked. See how the very first stitch is twisted? This was the first stitch CO the needle (see the knotted yarn at right?).

The second picture shows the first pair of provisional CO sts. The 1st st is twisted, and the 2nd is not.

The 3rd picture just shows that the pattern repeats with the next pair: twisted, untwisted.

So for all 12 sts, the order was: twisted, untwisted, twisted, untwisted, … , untwisted. This last untwisted stitch was the first one worked after CO. That means that the first CO st you work will be untwisted. Then the stitches alternate. The repeating pattern on the first row after CO would be: K1, K1 TBL.

My sample contained an even number of CO sts. If you had an odd number, then the repeating pattern for the 1st row after CO would be: K1 TBL, K1. Why? The first CO st was twisted. So, for an odd number of sts, the last one will also be twisted. So when you work the first st after finishing CO, you have to untwist it.

If you work the provisional CO sts later on in your knitting, they would look like the ones in my sample. You’ll be working the sts from the opposite end. The first st was the first st CO and is therefore twisted. So, regardless of whether you have an even or odd number of sts, you have to untwist the first st.

Hope this helps all the other KOCDs out there! :lol:

You went into the wrong field. You should have been a scientist! :thumbsup: