Stranded knitting tension

#1

Hello
I’m making some stranded colour swatches in 2 colours. My question is about “normal” tension.
If I knit in a single colour I always get the gauge on the ball band using the recommended needle size.
I know when I knit with 2 colours it is tighter so I go up in the needle size to stop the fabric going stiff.
What I’m wondering though is, should I be aiming to achieve the gauge on the ball band?

For example a pattern in plain stockinette sweater on 4mm needles with gauge 21 sts per 10cm compared with a fair isle pattern in the same yarn on same needles with the same gauge given but with a note:
“To avoid the knitting tension losing its elasticity when working pattern it is important that the strands at the back are not tight. Use a size larger needle when working pattern if the piece becomes tight.”
If I was working that pattern should I be going up in needle size to obtain the 21 sts per 10cm gauge?

I’m not following a pattern at the moment, just wondering about this as I work the swatches.

With this yarn I get 21 sts per 10 cm pre washing and post washing on 4mm stockinette.
I am getting 24 sts per 10cm pre washing with stranded colour work on 5mm (have a piece drying now) which would suggest going up to maybe 6mm needles to get 21 sts per 10cm. It doesn’t look tight on the 5mm but should it be even looser?

I’ll see how the fabric looks when dry but I’m just interested to know what I “should” aim for - 21 sts per 10cm or work with the gauge I have of 24 sts and find/design a pattern to fit that gauge.
What do you think?
What do you do when working fair isle or stranded colour work?
If you go up a needle size how much do you usually go up or does it change with every yarn and pattern?

1 Like
#2

What is normal tension for you? Remember that the ball band tension is a recommendation not gold standard from the yarn company. In many cases, it’s even given as a range of sts/unit length.
The gauge given in a pattern is the gauge that will give you the size indicated in the pattern. Many times, the needles recommended in the pattern are the needles used by the designer. He or she may be a tighter or looser knitter than you are and so you will adjust needle size to suit your tension and to achieve the pattern gauge. At the same time, check the feel and drape of the knit fabric to see if it’s what you want in the finished project and then adjust accordingly.

2 Likes
#3

I’m less concerned about the actual gauge in stranded work than I am about it being the right size and desired drape, if that makes sense. I don’t want some of the piece to be pulled in and look wonky. Same as for cables. If it looks like you want it to look and feels like you want it to feel, you’re using the right needles to accomplish the job.

3 Likes
#4

Thanks
Normal for me is always what is on the ball band. That’s just how I knit. If it says 21 sts on size 4mm in stockinette then I get that.
With stranded though it’s different.
Should the fabric ideally still be 21 sts per 10cm?
So if I’m getting 24 sts per 10 cm on 5mm needles I should try a 6mm needle to see if I get 21 sts?

The 5mm needle, 24 sts pre 10cm doesn’t feel stiff to me but do you think it would be even nicer drape and feel on a bigger needle?

#5

Yea, this is why I’m wondering because none of it is pulled in, I mean it looks okay, even stitch size, a decent rectangle (touch of roll at the edges as expected from stockinette but otherwise it is an even size). So I kind of feel its OK at the this gauge but if the yarn is “supposed” to be at 21 sts per 10 cm maybe I should make another swatch on a bigger needle. I do want a nice drape but I don’t really want the stitches any bigger - does that even make sense?

1 Like
#6

Is the stranded portion going to be part of a fitted garment that also has a non-stranded component? Will the tighter gauge make some part of the garment too tight? Usually if a sweater pattern says 21/10cm it also recommends changing needle size to maintain that gauge.

If it’s part of a non-fitted accessory like a scarf is the tighter gauge going to change the look of the piece? Are stranded portions going to be noticeably tighter than non-stranded?
You can always try different needle sizes to see what happens to the knit fabric. It’s all good information to have. Is there a specific pattern that you’re thinking of working?

1 Like
#7

I don’t have a pattern I’m thinking of as I decided to swatch the colour work charts I have chosen to see how it looked, decide which colours work and see what size the motif was when knitted. At the moment it’s all swatches and thoughts.
I am in two minds either to choose a basic sweater pattern to work from to just give guidance on the arm and neck shaping really, or I could work those out.
I think I’ll try a larger needle and just see what happens to the fabric. I know at the end of the day it’s personal preference but my inexperience was asking me what is “normal” before choosing to deviate from it.

#8

Are you doing any other manoeuvres to keep the stranded tension the same as the stockinette, such as stretching out the knitting as you work your row?
As @salmonmac says, the patterns with stranded sections also often have a stockinette portion, so you may want your gauges to match, regardless of what the yarn band says. But if your gauge is that different despite a whole mm difference in needle, it might suggest that the stitches are getting bunched up on your needles?

1 Like
#9

In my view the end product is what’s important and if that varies from what the ball band or another knitter’s claims, so what? For me, Normal is a setting on the dryer.

I can say that for the stranded mitten I recently finished I swatched to gauge given in the pattern in stockinette using a smaller needle than suggestd. I used the same needles for the stranded work and maintained gauge. (Checking was easy - tension was 29 st/4" and the flattened 60 st mitten came in right at 4".) I lucked out and the length of the mitten was right so I must have maintained row gauge too. I was amazed. I think a lot of what determines needle size needed depends in part on how one handles the yarn. I’ve worked out an oddball way of holding both yarns in my left hand. The contrast color is often tensioned using my thumb. I’ve not seen that in any how to’s so maybe I unvented it. Do what works for you is the best suggestion I can make. As for normal, I long ago quit worrying about that. Set your own standard for your own projects and let the rest of the world do it’s thing. I’ve seen photos of your work. You’re doing a lot of things right.

You’re an artist. Artists take what they’ve learned and build on it but aren’t restricted by it. They think about things in a different way than someone like me does.

3 Likes
#10

I don’t think I’m bunching the stitches. There is no obvious pulling or tightness… but perhaps I’m wrong. I’ll take photos front and back tomorrow and see if anyone can notice something for me.

I had considered the need to work stockinette or rib in a different size needle but it’s really good to have the reminders too.

1 Like
#11

I seem to remember reading that stranded stitches are a different shape to stockinette stitches, but it was discussed in terms of row gauge, not stitch gauge.

It might have been a Meg Swansen article. I remember it also had swatches knitted by several people, all experienced stranded knitters, and the differences were quite marked in row and stitch gauge, even though all the examples still looked good.

Just my personal opinion, but I would disregard the stockinette gauge and just work on my stranded swatches until I was happy with how the fabric looked after a wash.

I think the stitch gauge on stranded knitting will usually end up a little tighter than stockinette due to the nature of the stranded fabric.

I do usually try going up one needle size to start with.

1 Like
#12

It’s always good to hear other’s thoughts, thank you.

Now, one of my swatches has dried and my question seems moot as the gauge has relaxed down to 21 and 21.5 sts per 10 cm, I am measuring in many different places, on occassion it’s close to 22 sts but never as many as the 24 sts it measured to pre wash (and i do know how important washing is but my lack of experience shows in everything i knit, my stockinette gauge stays the same pre and post wash with this yarn and i half expected the stranded to do the same). Obviously there are some differences in stitch size here and there, hence the range from 21 to 22 sts depending where I measure. If I look for the smallest stitch in the swatch and compare with the biggest then there is quite a difference, but, overall they are spread out and I likely have an equal variety of stitch size in my stockinette knitting which I feel is, in general, acceptable tension wise. As in, I’m not a machine.
The fabric has some give, I can stretch it in either direction some.
I am still considering a larger needle, more drape, I don’t want the strands to start showing through though with a very ‘open’ kind of fabric made on large needles.
Does going up from 4mm stockinette to 5mm stranded sound about normal-ish? It seems so from what you’ve all said.

1 Like
#13

Here is a swatch front and back. I’m very open to criticism and advice.
This was washed and dried flat, no blocking pins, i didnt stretch to a particular size but just set it out flat and let it do its thing, all 4 edges have a little roll on them but I’m not measuring near the edges. 60 sts across.

17047865091004113964014933131244
170478650910041139640149331312441080×1440 997 KB

17047866513515021254243095455401
170478665135150212542430954554011080×1440 967 KB

2 Likes
#14

I’m not an expert on stranded knitting but I must say it looks very even and neat, I’m not seeing any obvious bunching on either photo.

1 Like
#15

Looks very nice and even. That’s quite a change in gauge with washing.

1 Like
#16

Looks like you nailed it.

1 Like
#17

Thank you all.
If I spend too long looking at it I see some big difference in stitch size, but I have also zoomed in on a few images of knitting online which look great and I see stitch size difference there too, so I think I can say I’m OK with this.
I might just try out a swatch on a bigger needle any way out of curiosity to see what the gauge and drape come out like so at least I’ll know. I am always wondering what if this and what if that. There are sooo many options with knitting, sometimes too many!

2 Likes
#18

Just wanted to say another thank you for mentioning this. I chanced upon an article (wasn’t looking for it but there it was) which mentioned this too, more square then rectangular shape stitches and therefore a different row gauge. At the time I wasn’t thinking too much about the row gauge as I thought I’ll just find out what my row gauge is and work to that, not giving it a great deal of thought, but since then I have realised it will have greater consequence. I am planning to seam colour work fabric to cable/lace fabric and the row gauges will be different.
As of yet I don’t know how much they differ, I can find that out and slightly alter the ratio of row to row seaming if necessary.
It’s really good you put this in my head, it’s given me a better overall idea of what I am doing, or what to expect. It has also made me realise that when I see a lot of colour charts on square grids they are not charting it “wrong” but rather closer to the square shape of the stitches. I had been a little confused as to why so many colour charts were on square grids and had been wondering if they would appear squewed once knitted.
All very good stuff to know - and highlights my total naivete when it comes to knitting!

1 Like