Not trying to get political, but this group tends to be one of the most intellectual, thoughtful groups I belong to and there is no where else I can ask this without starting a war. Also while the majority of people here are women, there are several men all who contribute in positive ways. So, without trying to be inflamatory… I ask your opinions on Womens Lib
Haha Did I ask a taboo question?
I just find that I have VERY definite opinions on this and have opened my mouth and floored people. Not like I was trying to, but from reactions I get I think I may be in the minority. Perhaps its because I live so close to Washington D.C., but I was hoping my opinion wasn’t a singular one.
The only comment I can really make is that I think in all the socio-political rhetoric society has generally failed to celebrate choice. If a woman wants to be a domestic goddess and feels her most fulfilled waiting on someone then her right to choose that (if she chooses so freely and with knowledge) should be as celebrated as a woman who chooses to be a CEO or a woman who wants both worlds as feasibly as possible. The same re men. If a man wants to be the domestic god and primary child carer and the woman would prefer to work or plough the 40 acre field then…yayyyy… if, again, they are happy.
Contemporary society to me should be about pulling down old demarcation lines and just celebrating informed choice.
I think it was a good idea in the 1960s, and I think it’s a good idea today.
I think Women’s Liberation has evolved; which is to be expected. To me it means that women should be able to make decisions for their own lives. How could that ever be a bad thing? There are plenty of folks who believe it’s their responsibility to tell you how you should live your life. These people are not your friends, even if they assure you they’re doing what’s best for you.
Some people march to the beat of a different drummer, and some people polka. Grab your accordion and polka to your hearts content if it makes you happy! That’s liberation.
Joe
One of my favourite writings on the subject of modern feminism:
Yes, You Are
It’s a reminder that you can be a stay-at-home mom, a college student, a high-powered executive, or a grandmother (or whatever else you want) and as long as you think that you (and all other women) have a right to choose that path you are on, you are, under the original definition of feminism, a feminist.
Yup. Just as I thought. I’m in the minority. :verysad:
I’m really surprised at the way the poll is breaking down right now… (I didn’t catch the actual number of votes cast though so maybe not.)
I believe much of my life would not have been possible if it weren’t for early feminists and then those in the 60s-70s.
I think it is just as necessary today as it was then to make sure that women have the same rights as men.
I think the difficulty comes in trying to make “equal” mean “the same” – I’m not sure this is something that will be resolved in my lifetime.
I consider myself a feminist (quite a vocal and active one at that), but I am also a wife and a mother and a SAHM… In my opinion, equality doesn’t mean that everyone has to do the same work – it means that everyone is free to choose a path, and to change it if it doesn’t work.
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion?
Chel,
I’d like to read your thoughts. I guess I’m kind of “young” to remember the whole movement. I’m 31, and while I’ve definitely seen changes in women’s positions in the workplace/t.v./home/etc. I don’t remember the ‘before’.
Additionally, I come from a very different upbringing than most people. I grew up in the Bay Area in the 80’s. My father is an Episcopal priest, at a bilingual church in Oakland. The majority of the congregation is made up of immigrants from all over the world. Growing up (from the time I can remember), the other priest at the church was female, and that to me was normal. My mother worked (elementary school teacher), and I spent the majority of time with my father, as he could take me with him.
My friends mothers were often either not married and therefore the “bread winner” or had “high power” jobs and the fathers were the ones who stayed at home. This was all quite normal for me.
Today I work in a job that is very male dominated. In all honesty the whole women’s lib thing is something that while I’m sure has effected my life is not something that I was ever really had much experience with. I grew up in a very liberal area, with liberal parents at a liberal time, around liberal people. Women’s lib was just something that I think was taken for granted. The prevalent attitude was work hard, do your job, and you will be taken seriously, and you will excel.
i am glad i am able to do as i please in our society. i do think though that because of womens lib, our society has taken advantage of it and used it to glorify sexuality in movies, tv, games. womens bodies have become so sexualized that people are uncomfotable with breastfeeding. and not just in public. my dh actually asked me if i was going to be done when dd was 6 mo. needless to say, she is still bf’ing at 1 yr, with no end in sight :teehee: . i sort of think that women are oppressed in that we visually and sexually are pushed to conform to a stripper/fantasy/celebrity image. breast implnts are ‘normal’ and being blond=beautiful.
i guess i think it was a good thing, but no longer so wonderful in part. being able to decide to stay home or work has been the best benefit, as well as being free to make informed choices about my reproductive rights.
i will leave my comments at that…
chel- what is your view? since ou asked its only fair for you to share 
I am a feminist. I am a wife. I am a mother. I am a taxpayer. I am a college student. I am a teacher. I am a voter.
And thanks to the diligent, lifelong work of women like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, among many others, I also have the right to control my own destiny in a society that (supposedly) values freedom and democracy above all things.
I will receive my Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science on May 12 at the age of 38. On that day, I will be sending up thanks to my girlfriends, Elizabeth and Susan. And also to my dad, who was the one who told me I could be anything I wanted to be. Yeah, he was a feminist, too.
And since it bears repeating- Thank A Feminist:
If you are female and
... you can vote, thank a feminist.
... you get paid as much as men doing the same job, thank a feminist.
... you went to college instead of being expected to quit after high school so your brothers could go because "You'll just get married anyway," thank a feminist.
... you can apply for any job, not just "women's work," thank a feminist.
... you can get or give birth control information without going to jail, thank a feminist.
... your doctor, lawyer, pastor, judge or legislator is a woman, thank a feminist.
... you play an organized sport, thank a feminist.
... you can wear slacks without being excommunicated from your church or run out of town, thank a feminist.
... your boss isn't allowed to pressure you to sleep with him, thank a feminist.
... you get raped and the trial isn't about your hemline or your previous boyfriends, thank a feminist.
... you start a small business and can get a loan using only your name and credit history, thank a feminist.
... you are on trial and are allowed to testify in your own defense, thank a feminist.
... you own property that is solely yours, thank a feminist.
... you have the right to your own salary even if you are married or have a male relative, thank a feminist.
... you get custody of your children following divorce or separation, thank a feminist.
... you get a voice in the raising and care of your children instead of them being completely controlled by the husband/father, thank a feminist.
... your husband beats you and it is illegal and the police stop him instead of lecturing you on better wifely behavior, thank a feminist.
... you are granted a degree after attending college instead of a certificate of completion, thank a feminist.
... you can breast feed your baby discreetly in a public place and not be arrested, thank a feminist.
... you marry and your civil human rights do not disappear into your husband's rights, thank a feminist.
... you have the right to refuse sex with a diseased husband [or just "husband"], thank a feminist.
... you have the right to keep your medical records confidential from the men in your family, thank a feminist.
... you have the right to read the books you want, thank a feminist.
... you can testify in court about crimes or wrongs your husband has committed, thank a feminist.
... you can choose to be a mother or not a mother in your own time not at the dictates of a husband or rapist, thank a feminist.
... you can look forward to a lifespan of 80 years instead of dying in your 20s from unlimited childbirth, thank a feminist.
... you can see yourself as a full, adult human being instead of a minor who needs to be controlled by a man, thank a feminist.
– Author unknown
Women’s lib = equal rights for women, right?
What could the argument AGAINST that possibly be?
I work in one of the most male dominated fields out there and am welcomed there.
Yes, I guess you could say I’m for it.
:cheering: 
:cheering:
Yes, I must admit I wondered what Chel’s view is also after posing the thread and offering that comment.
Well people I just experienced a shock as a woman and I’d like to hear your opinions. I am not hugely overweight but I am not small either. I just had a female job recruiter tell me over the phone that I would never get a job if I was a bigger woman. I would have to have an outstanding track record in order to get past that issue if I was big. I’ve never commented on any issue about my looks but I do have a knee problem that makes stairs hard to approach so perhaps I had mentioned that to her but I admit I am stunned a woman said that. Now, I’d prefer to know reality than not and I have been told that a female news reader can never be acceptable if large BUT, say in corporations etc, do any of you think a bigger woman is not going to get work? In Australian sizes I’m a 14. Average for my age and height etc would probably be a 12. (But I do have big arms and butt/thighs)
If you were approached and asked your opinion about a product from a simply but nicely dressed well padded woman, would that turn you off?
I am a size 10/12 and I’m not large at all… And I don’t know anything about Australia, but on our local news here a couple of the women (one reporter/anchor and one weather) are bigger than I am – never struck me as odd…
I read something somewhere recently about how overweight people are passed over when hiring a lot of the time, but those people were extremely overweight/obese, not size 14… (Not that it’s right either way, but I haven’t seen any research showing that an average size woman has a hard time getting hired.)
:shrug:
well, here goes. I really hope this doesn’t offend, but Chel asked…
I think that in search of equality, women (and all minorities in general) go too far and demand things that aren’t equal.
for example: women’s history month. I once complained to someone about how I think that women’s history month is absurd. women want to be equal, but they have to have a special month to remember things they did in histrory. “well, sandy, every month is man’s history month…” Every month is women’s history month too, it’s just that the things they do get overshadowed by the better things that men do. If women want to be remembered, then they need to do something great. :shrug:
and don’t get me started about lower qualifications for women who are firefighters and police officers. do i think women should be allowed to be fire fighters? absolutely. IF they can meet the SAME qualifications that a man can. The standards are there for a reason. People still need to be carried out of burning buildings.
Do I think womens lib is a good thing? yes.
Do I appreciate the freedoms that I have today? absolutely.
Do i think that women need special concessions? no.
George Bush: great president, or the greatest president?
Basically, I will ditto SandraEllen.
Personally, I don’t think true equality will ever be achieved until society stops emphasizing the differences. We need to stop being concerned with how many women are in positions of power in this country, or how many women a certain company employs, etc. I cringe every time someone says we need a woman President, or more women Senators, etc. We need to elect the best person for these positions, not the best woman for them. Companies should hire the best applicant for a job, without worrying about numbers. I’m all for woman-owned businesses, but I don’t think they should have special tax breaks and special incentives when bidding on goverment contracts. Women should be able to go to college and study whatever subject interests them, but they should be accepted on their own merits, not just because they are female.
I’m very grateful for the rights I have now, and I think the feminist movement (starting with the Suffragettes) made great strides toward equality in this country. But, feminists now want special consideration, and that’s not equality.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I don’t believe in such a thing as “women’s work,” I do believe that pendulum has swung the other way. I’m tired of the insinuation that I’m not as good a woman, or not doing my part, because I choose not to be employed outside the home.
While I don’t necessarily subscribe to the idea that men and women have pre-defined “roles,” I guess I might be considered more of a traditionalist. In our household, my husband’s job is to go to work, and mine is to raise our children. We help and support each other in any way we can (and he does household chores, believe me!). I found that when those roles were reversed–when I worked and he went to school/stayed home, neither of us felt as fulfilled as we do now. However, I would never impose those choices or those views on others. I know plenty of women who are fulfilled at work, and I applaud them for it!
Sometimes I feel women who choose to stay home are considered less-educated or unenlightened. :shrug: But that’s just the way the world is sometimes. I think we sometimes get so wrapped up in whether or not life’s “fair” that we forget altogether to enjoy it!