OT: Do You Have Any Confidence in Bailouts?

#21

When you say the US is famously exporting democracy to the world, what I interpret that to mean is that they are trying to give the power of government to the people - not a king, not a dictator, not a religious group, etc.

The USA, though, IS a Republic, NOT a Democracy. The basic difference between the two is that in a Democracy, it is, simply put, majority rules…there is NO protection for the individual or for those in the minority. Under a Republic, the individual and/or those in the minority can not have their rights trampled on simply because the Majority thinks it should be that way.

It would probably be best if you Googled “Republic or Democracy”, where the two are compared side by side and you can see the differences.

Thanks for asking the question…it reminds me that there are things I need to brush up on (it’s been a long time since high school US History!!) to open my eyes to things that are being thrown around, laws people are trying to pass that don’t meet the right criteria (and I mean in my state, too, not just nationally), and be a watchdog for it.

#22

Something is fishy with that math. 301 million divided into 85 billion does not come out to 495,000 each.

I got that e-mail too, and the math, it came out to 425.00 and not 425,000.00

It just struck me as incorrect math.

#23

I think this is all a bunch of BUNK!!! They should not have bailed out anyone. They should have let everyone fall on their faces and suffer through a ‘depression’ as so many people like to call it. They recovered from the last one, we’d recover from this one too. All they got was a slap on the wrist and they’ll just keep on doing what they’ve been doing and do it again and again and again.

Shame on anyone who signed those mortgage papers knowing full well they wouldn’t be able to pay the bill when it went up. And if you don’t know that ‘Adjustable’ means it will go up and down then you shouldn’t be buying a car let alone a home.

We would have loved to buy our first home within the last few years but we have the sense to know that we just couldn’t swing it then, we can now, but now since we were the responsible adults we get screwed for how long now?? Months? Years? Until we can get a decent loan. It’s completely unfair that the responsible people have to suffer right along with the idiots and crooks. And when I say idiots, I mean the morons who bought a house they couldn’t afford and when I say crooks, I mean the morons who sold them the loan.
This really sucks. :hair:

P.S. Did you see on Yahoo’s front page about AIG? Seems some of their employees went on a nice $400,000 retreat. And then of course they tried to justify it. It’s crap. You see, it’ll never end.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081008/ap_on_bi_ge/fed_aig

#24

The United States is Constitutional Federal Republic based on Representative Democracy.

There are 3 levels of government Federal. State and Local. Some people pay more taxes than others depending on where they live because some states do not have state income tax. We have Federal tax. Some states have higher sales taxes. We have federal laws and state laws. Federal law trumps state law.

#25

:doh:
unnecessarily rude

#26

What struck me as funny was that some local business people got together right after the bailout was signed to say how great this was. They were banks, of course, real estate agents, car dealerships, etc. They finished their press conference with the suggestion that people go shopping, because they had money to give away now.

Reporter asked if they really thought it was a good idea to tell people to start borrowing money again when the bailout had just passed (seriously, it was within minutes.) The car dealer said “of course… we are a credit driven society.” :wall:

#27

I would love to see the “credit society” crumble and die. It really is insane.

We’ve had the bronze age, and iron age, will this be thought of by future historians as the credit age?

#28

Understood! But the ones at fault SHOULD be held reponsible!

#29

Understood! But the ones at fault SHOULD be held reponsible!

#30

Sorry, it’s still not clear. I have also Googled it!
Scout says the US is a republic based on democratic representation. That makes sense, because it’s a form of government based on a certain idea.
So why is the US not a democracy?
The UK has a Queen but it is a parliamentary democracy. I’ve never noticed that the rights of the individual or minorities are trampled on there - or at least let’s say any more than they are trampled on in many countries.
Also, if you don’t have majority rule what is the point of counting votes?

#31

The Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution is the Equal Protection Clause which guarantees the civil rights of the people of the United States. That amendment is to ensure that there is no tyranny of the majority. In the federal government and the state government there is 3 tiers-executive, legislative, and judicial. That serves as the checks and balance system also to ensure that the rights of the people are heard.

We are a democracy but a representative democracy. We vote for a representative to legislate for us. We are a republic in that we have states that are governed by their own local laws but are unified by a constitution and are ultimately governed by the president, the legislative branch (the senate and the house of representatives) and judicial branch.

Does that make more sense?

#32

Yes, it does.
Actually, it’s not that I don’t know what a republic is. It’s just that I’ve been struck more than once by posters on here saying that the US is NOT a democracy. Couldn’t get my head round that. I’m happy with “We are a democracy but a representative democracy”. Seems to me you can put all the adjectives you want in front of it but it’s still a democracy.

#33

Glad to help.

It confuses plenty of Americans so don’t worry. People get confused on the republic and/or representative part, but yep still a democracy.

If I remember correctly Italy is parliamentary democracy correct?

#34

I’m glad you were here to explain it much better than I could! :wink:

#35

I was talking about this with my dad last night. He said they’d send someone to prison for stealing food for their kids, but these CEOs are going on luxury retreats instead of being held accountable in any way and paying for what they’ve done to this country.

I would be all for the bailout if it were our money to give, not other countries’, and if it actually did something to help people like me.

#36

You’re Welcome. I had great political science and civics teachers. I always loved history. I had a teacher you would give the students actual memorabilia from each era that we were studing to KEEP. It was a great way get the students involved. I still have each one. :slight_smile:

#37

I found this very interesting reading on the republic vs. democracy topic.
www.devvy.com/pdf/larosa/larosa_democracy_or_republic.pdf

#38

Italy is a republic and a parliamentary democracy. The UK is a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary democracy.
One of the main differences between the parliamentary system and yours is that there is no separation of legislature and executive. This might have some disadvantages but on the whole I think there are more advantages.

#39

I didn’t read through the whole thread to see if this was mentioned, but the bail out as passed was unconstitutional and every Yes vote from the Senate needs to be thrown in prison.

Traditionally spending bills have to originate in the House.
Specifically, “All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House”.
The Senate can only initiate amendments to spending bills.

The Senate bill does speak of raising the revenue for the spending. Since they’re the ones who started what was passed it is against the law.

#40

Thanks for your question, nbrome. And thanks scout for your explanations. Iran and China call themselves republics and they don’t seem to protect their minorities that much, so I was confused too. :shrug: So what I understand is that the protection of minorities come from the constitution. And you can have a constitution without a republic (like Canada). It’s the implementation that’s important.