# Novice in need of help please!

First of all, I’m new to this site, and to be honest relatively new to knitting, so hello!

I was gifted a lovely knit the nativity book for christmas by my mother-in-law, so I thought I’d make an early start for next year (there’s a lot of parts to it, so it may take me some time!) but I’ve already encountered a problem…

here goes…

if I have 29 stitches and then work the following row, how many stitches should this leave me with?

(yrn, k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3, y.fwd, k1) twice, then y.fwd, k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3 ?

the next row is yrn then purl to end, resulting in 29 stitches total, which suggests the row before gives 28 stitches, but I’m not sure how?? I must be going wrong somewhere as I seem to be gaining stitches:?? Should y.fwd give me a stitch? I thought it just meant bring yarn to front of work?

Thanks in advance for any help!

I must be counting it wrong 'cause I can only make 20 stitches out of the row you listed. the y.fwd shouldn’t give you another stitch (not on purpose anyway :mrgreen:) but I think the yrn will… like a YO would. But you also have a double decrease (sl1, k2tog, psso) in the same repeat and another one at the end of the line. So…

I’ll be interested in seeing the answer to this one too.

Glad I’m not the only one confused by this!

Yep, I end up with 28 too. Is there a k1 before the first repeat? Or there should be another yo at the end of the row.

So I AM counting it (WAY) wrong… but I’m still not seeing where.

yrn +1 (1)
k3 +3 (4)
sl1, k2tog, psso -2 (2)
k3 +3 (5)
y.fwd +0 (5)
k1 +1 (6)

doing all that twice yields (12)

then
y.fwd +0 (12)
k3 +3 (15)
sl1, k2tog, psso -2 (13)
k3 (16)

Even if you added one for the y.fwd’s that still only comes out to 19. So what am I missing? :wall:

I also counted 28.

" the y.fwd shouldn’t give you another stitch (not on purpose anyway )" I believe the yfwd is an inc (more or less a yo), and wyif just means bring it to the front w/o an inc.

"the next row is yrn then purl to end, resulting in 29 stitches total"
With 28 sts from the previous row the[B] yrn[/B] before purling the rest of the sts will bring the count 29.

That’s how I figure it works.

I figured the yrn on the next row would add one to whatever the listed row was too, but then I started adding up THAT and I can’t make it be 28. Then again, I figured yfwd was just bringing the yarn forward between the needles, so what do I know? :??

I counted it to 28 but getting it down in writing is proving very difficult. I’ll try again.

(yrn,[B] <1>[/B] k3,[B]<3>[/B] sl1, k2tog, psso,[B]<1>[/B] k3,[B]<3>[/B] y.fwd[B]<1>[/B], k1[B]<1>[/B]) twice, then y.fwd, k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3

The bolded numbers come to 10, do it twice for 20

y.fwd, [B]<1>[/B] k3[B],<3>[/B] sl1, k2tog, psso[B],<1>[/B] k3[B]<3>[/B]
This gives you 8 more,
20 + 8 = 28

Math and I do not get along very well. :gah:

A yo or yrn or yf doesn’t use a stitch, it’s just a wrap around the needle, then you go on to the k3 or single k1. So your stitches would be -

“yo, k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3, yo, k1, yo, k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3, yo, k1, yo k3, sl1, k2tog, psso, k3”

The yo isn’t counted as a stitch, but adds one which is offset by the decs. There’s the problem - there’s 3 double decs (-6 sts) and 5 YOs. So either there should be another yo, or the very last dec is either a sl1, [I]k1[/I], psso or k2tog, but not a double dec.

Well you’re doing better than I am. I was getting derailed by the double decrease and counting it as -2 not +1. Which… is SORTA right, but sends the stitch that IS still left on the needle into an alternate dimension. :hair:

All of this begs the requisition if yrn=YO and yfwd=yo then why use 2 different <expletive> instructions to say the same thing?? :grrr:

Hmmm…so just thought I would have another practice…

It seems that when I’m yarning fwd I’m increasing by 1, because if I knit (yarn is to back) bring the yarn to the front (yarn forward) then knit again it is having the same effect as yarning over, ie adding a stitch. When I do this now I am only left with 1 stitch to knit at the end of the row, instead of 3! Yet, when I count the stitches it adds up to 28.
Then on the next row when I yrn then purl to end that makes 29, which is correct.
The next row asks me to repeat the first row.Again I had 1 stitch to knit at the end, instead of 3, again giving 28.
The I must yrn and knit to end (29) and repeat theses 4 rows until it reaches a certain length.
The knitting is starting to take on the correct shape according to the picture, so maybe the pattern is wrong, not me?? Maybe it should read k1 instead of k3 at the end of the first row?
:wall:

Glad to know I haven’t [I]completely[/I] lost the ability to add short columns of small numbers…

I think GG’s got the 29th one sorted. It happens with the YO at the beginning of the next row.

That makes sense, but then why the hell do I only seem to have 1 stitch left to knit at the end of the complicated row instead of 3??? Arrghhh! I’m still going wrong!!

“All of this begs the requisition if yrn=YO and yfwd=yo then why use 2 different <expletive> instructions to say the same thing?”

My best guesses:

Patterns are written according the custom of the country they are written in

Patterns are written by people from different generations and terminology changes

Old patterns get updated and terminology from yesteryear gets mixed with terminology for the time the pattern was updated, which may or may not have happened this decade or this century

Patterns are written by people and people do things their own way

In addition to differences by country and maybe continent, there are probably regional differences as well…much as in Stephen King books he talks about a breakdown lane which I think is called a shoulder here.

Go figure. Patterns written by real people in a real world are imperfect and sometimes rather unclear.

Yes, it makes me grumpy!

See, I never even thought about a double decrease and had to go find it. I just about gave up. I counted how many stitches each part of the instructions accounted for on the right needle. My mind works differently, obviously, and sometimes explanations go right over the top of my head. For me to explain things so someone else understands can be nigh impossible. It is so frustrating!

I get all of the above. People say things differently in different places/times. And yeah, considering it’s a nativity, the pattern could be as much as 2000 years old.

But isn’t that what EDITORS ARE FOR??? You’d think that in the process of getting this to publication SOMEBODY would have asked this question. I know if I submitted documentation with something similar in it, I’d have gotten it back with a sternly worded WTF on it.

Makes me grumpy too

They’re usually used between different kinds of sts… a yfwd between 2 knits and a yrn between 2 purls or from a knit to a purl. Which isn’t here, they’re all knit sts so someone doesn’t know how to write a pattern.

Wait till you see ‘k3, yfwd, yrn, p2’. That’s just 1 yo and is between a knit a purl.

The major difference being that your way WORKS!

Honestly, I might have missed the double decrease too if I weren’t currently working on a pattern that looks eerily similar to this one. But since that one is stored in fast-access RAM at present, that subset of instructions sorta jumped out at me.

With a little help, I think I’ve cracked it! Just managed to knit the row, having 3 knit stitches at the end as per the pattern and yet it still added up to 28!! Think I was yarning over incorrectly at the beginning of the first bit of the repeat:woohoo: