Need Help with Armholes and Neck

Hi, I am back with more questions , this time with shaping the armhole and neck. This is the link to the free pattern: https://web.archive.org/web/20101227213516/http://www.knitrowan.com/editorial-image/pdf/Ginger.pdf.pdf

I’m following the small size and my questions are the indented ones.

Shape armholes
Cast off 4 (5: 5: 6: 6) sts at beg of next 2 rows.
58 (60: 64: 66: 70) sts. - I need to cast off 5 stitches for 2 rows before starting with Row 1 underneath, right?

Row 1 (RS): K2, K2tog, K to last 4 sts, K2tog tbl, K1, pick up loop lying between
needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl
last st knitwise.
Row 2: P tog first st and the loop, P1, P2tog tbl, P to last 4 sts, P2tog, P1, pick up
loop lying between needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does
NOT count as a st), sl last st purlwise.
Row 3: K tog tbl first st and the loop, K1, K2tog, K to last 4 sts, K2tog tbl, K1, pick
up loop lying between needles and place loop on right needle, sl last st knitwise.
Row 4: As row 2. 50 (52: 56: 58: 62) sts.

Last 2 rows form slip st edging and set armhole decreases.
Keeping sts correct as set, dec 1 st at each end of next and foll 2 (2: 3: 3: 4) alt rows.
44 (46: 48: 50: 52) sts. - What set is this? The R1-R4 above? Also what does “next and following 2 alt rows” mean? So if I’m already on R52, on R53 I start the decrease, and then dec again on R55? I’m confused with the “2 alt rows”.

Cont straight until armhole measures 18 (18: 19: 19: 20) cm, ending with a
WS row.

Shape neck
Next row (RS): Patt 9 (9: 10: 10: 11) sts, pick up loop lying between needles and
place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl next st
knitwise and turn, leaving rem sts on a holder. - Which pattern?

Now working slip st edging and decreases at neck edge in same way as for armholes,
cont as folls:
Dec 1 st at neck edge of next 4 rows. 6 (6: 7: 7: 8) sts. - Neck edge means at the end of the row just like the armhole decs?

Work 1 row.
Shape shoulder
Cast off rem 6 (6: 7: 7: 8) sts.
With RS facing, rejoin yarn to rem sts, cast off centre 24 (26: 26: 28: 28) sts, K to
last st, pick up loop lying between needles and place loop on right needle, sl last st
knitwise.
Complete to match first side, reversing shapings. - Huh?

Sorry for the lengthy post and the multitude of questions. This Rowan pattern is definitely not for beginners.

I’m also thinking of reversing the back and front pieces and would therefore need to make the neck of the back less plunging. Could I simply work a few more rows until I follow the “Divide for Neck” part below? Or is there a proper way to do it? Below is the instructions for the back.

BACK
Work as given for front to **.
Inc 1 st at each end of next and every foll 6th row until there are 64 (68: 72: 76:
80) sts.
Work 3 rows, ending with a WS row.
Divide for neck
Next row (RS): K28 (30: 32: 34: 36), K2tog tbl, K1, pick up loop lying between
needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl
next st knitwise and turn, leaving rem sts on a holder.
31 (33: 35: 37: 39) sts.
Work each side of neck separately.
Next row: P tog first st and the loop, P to end.
These 2 rows set decreases and slip st edging along neck edge.
Keeping sts correct as set, cont as folls:
Dec 1 st at neck edge of next and foll 4 alt rows and at same time inc 1 st at beg of
next row.
27 (29: 31: 33: 35) sts.
Work 1 row, ending with a WS row

Yes, cast off 5sts at the beginning of the next 2 rows, then start row 1 below.

Set refers to rows 3 and 4 (4 is actually the same as row 2). These rows show you how to decrease and where. Start the dec on row 53 then 55 and 57. Those are the two alternate rows.

Your pattern appears to be stockinette (knit one row, purl one row)

The neck edge is the end of the row for this shoulder. The armhole decreases are at the beginning of the row.

For the second shoulder, the decreases will match the decreases on the first shoulder. Dec at the neck edge on 6 rows, work 1 row then bind off the remaining shoulder sts.

You’re doing really well with this.

If you want to raise the neckline, yes, work a few more rows before starting the decreases. You will have to decrease more frequently to compensate for the fewer number of rows between the beginning of the neck shaping and the shoulder.

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HI salmonmac! Thank you for making it much easier to understand! Yes, I’m using stockinette. Why couldn’t they have just simply said so instead of using “pattern” :slight_smile:

  • For the neck on the back part, the text in bold means that I should always do the 2 rows as a set (K2tog row and Ptog row)?
  • I’m not sure I understand what "Dec 1 st at neck edge of next and foll 4 alt rows and at same time inc 1 st at beg of next row." in relation to the set.
  • For “next and foll 4 alt rows”, if I’m on R40, I dec starting at R41, then at R45, R49, and so on? I’m a bit confused since the wording used prior was “every foll 6th row” and now there’s “alt rows”. Is there a difference in the terms?

Next row (RS): K28 (30: 32: 34: 36), K2tog tbl, K1, pick up loop lying between
needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl
next st knitwise and turn, leaving rem sts on a holder.
31 (33: 35: 37: 39) sts.
Work each side of neck separately.
Next row: P tog first st and the loop, P to end.
These 2 rows set decreases and slip st edging along neck edge.
Keeping sts correct as set, cont as folls:
Dec 1 st at neck edge of next and foll 4 alt rows and at same time inc 1 st at beg of
next row.
27 (29: 31: 33: 35) sts.
Work 1 row, ending with a WS row

Use the "Next row (RS): k28… " and the “Next row: P tog first…” to show you where to work decreases.

Decrease at the neck edge on rows 41,43,45,47 and 49. Increase one st at the beginning of row 1. (alternate rows means every other row)

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Thank you once again! How you explain it makes it so much more understandable!

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Let us know how it’s going and do post a photo when you finish!

Will do! I do have another question though. How do alter the pattern so that the front neckline dips a bit lower? I’m guessing I need to cast off some stitches as I’m doing the armhole?

Yes, decide where you would like the neckline to start a bind off and then work out the decreases along the neck edge. You’re really being your own designer here!

Hahaha! Thanks! I wanted a simple project, but then I’m thinking I bit off more than I could chew :stuck_out_tongue: Going to add a lifeline, and if I muck it up, I can always frog it.

It’s me again! :stuck_out_tongue: Just to be clear, the increase and decrease take place on the same row? Like on Row 41 (RS), I increase at the beginning, then at the neck edge I do a decrease? Or am I supposed to do the increase on the Purl row?

It’s just on row 1 that you have the increase at the beginning of the row (armhole edge). The decreases are at the end of row (neck edge) and they continue for the next several rows.

So when you say row 1, you mean the "(RS): k28… " part, right? And I have to increase alternate rows? (Row 2 in this case is the purl row?)

Also, when do I do the decrease at the end since the last two steps are picking up a stitch and a slip stitch?

K28 (30: 32: 34: 36), K2tog tbl, K1, pick up loop lying between
needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl
next st knitwise and turn, leaving rem sts on a holder.

Really sorry, but somehow this pattern really confuses me.

For the decreases for the neck:
Keeping sts correct as set, cont as folls:
Dec 1 st at neck edge of next and foll 4 alt rows and at same time inc 1 st at beg of
next row.
27 (29: 31: 33: 35) sts.
Work 1 row, ending with a WS row

I’m calling the next row, row 1. Dec 1 st at the neck edge of rows 1,3,5,7 and 9. Inc 1 st at the beinning of row 1.
If you call the next row, row 41 (instead of row 1)then the decreases are on rows 41,43,45,47 and 49, Increase at the beginning of row 41.

As for where to work the decreases, follow the pattern on this row where the k2tog tbl is your decrease:
K28 (30: 32: 34: 36), K2tog tbl, K1, pick up loop lying between
needles and place loop on right needle (note: this loop does NOT count as a st), sl
next st knitwise and turn, leaving rem sts on a holder.

This part of the pattern is a bit complicated. It’s not just you. You’re doing a fine job of working you way through it. It may help to set up a number of sts with scrap yarn and work out the decrease section along with the slip stitch edge so you can see how it goes. Come back if it’s still not making sense.

I made a lifeline and tried it. I’m doing a size S, so I need to go from 33 to 29 sts. I did an increase only at the beg of Row 1/R41.

On the next dec at R43/R3, for example, It wasn’t possible to complete the quoted part above since I don’t have enough stitches. What I did though was knit until there were 3 sts remaining and continued with “k2tog tbl, pick up loop, sl st” before turning. I basically omitted the “K1”.

Is this an acceptable way of doing it? I mean, I’ve gotten it down to 29 sts, so I guess it’s okay? :sweat_smile:

Yes, since you’re decreasing you won’t be able to follow the exact numbers for sts (28sts) so working to the last 3 or 4sts will be fine. As long as you like the look you should be fine.

So Ive worked my way up to shaping the armholes and am now working the decreases. Problem is, after a few rows of working the cast off row, I noticed that the couple of stitches after the 5th cast off stitch seem to be a bit “hole-y”.

Is there a trick to preventing this?

You’re only working the cast off once on each side right? From there on it’s one stitch decreases each side.
Are you working the usual stitch over stitch bind off. Can you post a photo of the hole you’re describing? There won’t be a hole after the last cast off stitch.

Yep, just the 5. I’m doing the usual bind off. Could it be that my next stitch immediately after the last cast off is a bit loose?

Thanks for the photo. It looks like the cast off is fine but perhaps there’s another row or two with the last cast off stitch slipped (the one with the red dot)?

Is this the armhole edge? Are there a series of decreases at the armhole? If so for this first RS row after the cast off don’t slip the stitch. Work a k2tog tbl if you like maybe one stitch in from the edge.