I tried on my Green Gable and decided that it needed short rows. I’ve been waiting to try the Japanese method, so I finally got to do it. If you’re interested in how I did them ITR, I posted pictures with accompanying comments on my blog. Now, let’s just hope that I didn’t create too big of a cup size!!! :shock: :lol:
Most excellent job!! I’ve been thinking about doing Nona’s short row experiment…may have to give it a go now…your’s look great
Have you seen Nona’s blog on Japanese number diagrams for doing increases, decreases and BOs? It’s pretty cool! I might have to look more into Japanese knitting techniques.
This fills me with admiration for you ladies (and guys) and the things you are able to do! I am humbled and inspired to see things like this. I guess you just have to have the nerve to jump in and try things.
Great job! I also just discovered the wonder of Japanese short rows, never have my stitches laid so flat!! Though I agree, the knit one’s lay much nicer than the purl ones (I also knit them in the round, on my diaper soakers).
It looks neat! Very admirable, too!!!
Ahhhhh, I just popped over to Nona’s blog…love her schematics & diagram with Japanese knitting…where does she find these things?!
'Wish I knew because I can’t find anything in English on the internet! I Googled many variations of Japanese knitting/patterns/techniques and searched Amazon. i couldn’t find any books on Japanese knitting at all.
Maybe I’m missing something, I’ve looked on Nonas blog and can’t find these Japanese short rows that you speak of!! If you could point me in the right direction I’d appreciate it!!
:doh: Nevermind, I found it!
This is an old thread I happened to stumble upon and I want to add one thing: Japanese short rows, Wrap and Turn (if you pick up the wrap) and Yarn Over short rows are all anatomically identical. The only difference is a slight difference in tightness because of where an extra loop of yarn was temporary stored.
I will explain why! With all of them you take the working yarn and store a loop for later use. With “Japanese short row” you store it around a bobby pin or a stitch marker. With “Wrap and Turn” you store it around a stitch from where it can be picked up. With “Yarn Over” you store it around the needle. Regardless of where you store it you always work that loop together with the stitch on the other side of the gap. Thus they are all identical. Because creating a loop around a stitch marker usually results in a smaller loop the “Japanese short rows” method is usually the tightest version of these short rows methods.
The Shadow Wrap short row method is almost identical to Yarn Over. The only difference is that the “Yarn Over” is also passed through the parent stitch of the stitch on the other side of the gap. Thus it creates a little bit extra bulk (which is why it is my least preferred way of doing short rows).
I love Japanese short rows. I used to have trouble finding the wrapped stitch before (especially when using dark yarn) but sine I’ve been using Japanese short rows, no problem
Thank you! I have hated JSR because of the blasted markers or yarn to pull up the loop being fiddly and annoying. A light came on and I realized I could just skip them and pick up the loop when I need to. I tried it and it works. I will experiment a bit more but may now use JSR in place of GSR. I don’t like shadow wraps or yo short rows. GSR have been my go to with rare exceptions because they’re so easy and have worked well for me.
Thank you. this is interesting. I have learned a little about some new short row methods recently, having only used wrap and turn (it’s just what I happened to learn first and since I never did much with short rows and w and t seemed fairly standard, I never saw the need to move beyond it). But now that I’m learning other methods so far w and t is my overall least favorite.
As I work continental combined I also need methods that can be worked in either east or west stitches or easily adapted accordingly.
I was turned off by all the fussing with pins I saw with Japanese s r, as I’m not much for lots of notions and prefer techniques that don’t require extra tools. But I’ll have to try them, maybe without all the pins.
I really like German short rows! They look nice on both sides of the work and they’re so simple and easy to do. At first I was skeptical because of how odd, almost “wrong”, the stitches at the turning points look, but once I tried it and saw how smoothly and well it works I was hooked. (And the principal is simple and intuitive enough that it’s easy to do regardless of stitch mount direction.)
Nothing is wrong with GSR and I have been using GSR too. The post I created above I created because some find a particular way of doing short rows easier than other ways. By knowing that many of them are just different ways to achieve identical (even anatomically identical) result it makes it easier for people to substitute a method for another one.
When doing JSR without storing the loop somewhere (on a marker/needle/around stitch) I slip the first stitch after the turn, with yarn on the wrong side. Then I can more easily find that extra loop on the wrong side. I also think the result is smoother if I just slip the first stich after the turn rather than knit/purl straight into it, so this approach got two advantages.
It is quite funny, but GSR can be made in the same way: you just turn and slip the first stitch without creating the double stitch. Then when returning, right before the slipped stitch you pick up the same “wrap” and work it together with the slipped stitch. You thus created an afterthought double stitch and the result is anatomically identical to normal GSR. The difference between GSR and JSR is thus that with JSR you work the “wrap” together with the stitch after the gap and with GSR you work it together with the stitch before the gap.
I quickly made some picture of both GSR done with “afterthought” double stitch and JSR done without any markers or any other way to store the wrap. The yarn was self striping so the color change is not directly related to the short row. There is no visible hole where I turned.
Here comes GSR with “afterthought” double stitch:
And here comes JSR with slipped first stitch and “wrap” picked up from behind (without marker):
I also knit continental combined and I think all short rows method can be done in this knitting style. I would say that because I knit this style I have had to think a bit more about the techniques and because of this I did notice the similarities between the methods.
I love that there is no right or wrong way to do (almost) anything knitting. A light bulb came on when reading your post and I had to let you know. I don’t think anything specific flipped the switch. I’ve done afterthought GSR before. I tink and frog so much that when I found out how to correct an undone double stitch I was in seventh heaven. Thanks for the pics. If I weren’t sure it’s not true I’d ask if you used the same photo for both methods because they look so much the same. You wouldn’t do that, I won’t ask.
I’m glad you’re here. You’re a big reason I came back to KH after being gone a long time. This is where I learned to do something with knits and purls and started on my road to being a knitter. Someday I may consider myself a real knitter.
I first knitted the afterthought GSR and made a photo. Then I frogged past the GSR row and knitted the JSR and made the second photo. That is why they are very similar .
But you are a real knitter. As someone that learned knitting as an adult and been knitting just some years I do have a big respect for your skills. You certainly got more experience than me.
Yes! I couldn’t agree more with this sentiment–both in this specific context, and in knitting techniques in general.
Thanks for taking the time to share these revelations and compare the methods.
Never tried Japanese short rows, and I have to bc the results I see are spectaculars! Thank You for sharing!