Is this possible?

[ColoCro]

Still having issues with the Campside Classic Cardigan. Not really problems with the pattern, except I don’t like how the short rows to raise the back of the neck look. It creates an odd reverse curve that I know will vanish once I have the neckline ribbing on, but it goes against everything I learned in a 40-year career of making clothing patterns. I feel that needing to add short rows after casting on just means that the raglan lines aren’t in quite the right place at the start.

I think I could start with fewer stitches, coming to the middle of the sleeve stitches, and then add to the front edge until I match up with the pattern, accounting for the extra rows but without doing the JSR or GSR called for. This should give a smoother curve to the neckline.

My REAL question is…can I do an extra-long crochet chain for a provisional cast-on, start working in the middle 40 stitches, and pick up extra stitches on the provisional as I need them around neck? Rather than doing a series of m1s one stitch from the edge?? It seems to me that this should work, but I’m not totally confident.

Thanks for any enlightenment!

[GrumpyGramma]

Your basic idea works. Does your pattern call for a provisional cast on? I’ve attempted the method of casting on all the neckline stitches and picking up more as I worked after seeing a video about it but didn’t care for it personally. I didn’t like the way it looked where I picked up one more stitch. The video didn’t use a short row turning technique so left gaps. I’ll likely try it again sometime when I care to bother and think about how to do it so I like it. For a raglan, I cast on for the back neck and shoulder section then do raglan increases every RS row and the appropriate frequency for the neck. That could be every RS row, I usually do every other RS row. I hadn’t considered casting of for only part of the shoulder section but will try it next time I think. I have a suspicion I might like it better. Knowing when and where to work in pattern for cables, etc. can be difficult. More so for me because I don’t actually follow patterns as a rule. They never fit right so I don’t bother. Even with making gauge the fit is never to my liking with patterns.

Does your pattern start with the longest short rows or the shortest? Starting with the shortest, on a top down construction, gives a better look.

I decided I should look up the pattern to be sure I read your post correctly as I drink my morning coffee. I had to be sure I wasn’t just assuming top down construction. lol

Campside Classic pattern by Alicia Plummer

ETA Because I first learned to do sweaters the way I do them I was confused about the need for short row back neck shaping. Once I grasped the concept I realized that the way you want to do this negates the need for short rows because essentially it does the same thing in a different way. There’s more than one way to knit a sweater and arrive at pretty much the same result. I love that about knitting! BTW I learned to crochet a basic top down raglan cardigan and never need a pattern and applied what I’d learned to knitting. I’ve also learned to do top down set in sleeve tops without a pattern. Works for me.

[ColoCro]

Thanks for your detailed reply! My pattern doesn’t call for a provisional cast-on, but I know several people who don’t start any other way, so thought it might work. I’ve done some tests, though, and my idea of using a longer crochet chain and picking up from it as I go doesn’t work well. It’s very fiddly, so NOT an improvement. I may just start with the shorter cast-on and add as I’ve calculated, until I match up with the first row of the pattern.

A raglan sleeve for sewing looks like this:

I feel that this cardigan pattern is missing some of that lift at the back of the sleeve, which is part of the back neck curve. I know knitwear is different, but knitted as per the pattern it looks like this:

The pattern does do the shorter short rows first, and I can see where reversing them might help, because it would add some length to the back raglan seam, which looks pretty short here, even though the last 2 short rows do cross it.

So I swatched it to check, and it looks much better. Thanks for the tip!

I swatched both of my ideas with some scrap yarn, and I may go with this and avoid the short rows entirely. Unfortunately, while picking up from the provisional chain works well enough, unzipping the chain later does not.

OK, enough playing around. Time to actually cast on this sweater!

I’ll add that I finally found the list of abbreviations on the very last page of this pattern. I’d have noticed sooner in paper, but stopped reading on my devices when I hit the schematic. Note to self: At least look at every single page in future!

The designer, Alicia Plummer, is very responsive on Ravelry. She had indeed gotten mixed up between comment threads when she said that short rows weren’t needed for this pattern. She has several “Campside” designs, so it’s easy to see how it happened.

[GrumpyGramma]

I’m sorry to say your photos aren’t showing for me. Are you aware that you can add more short rows if you want, if you choose to use short rows. You can also alter the number of stitches between turns and use more or fewer if that works better for you. I just do what looks like it should work when I do them. If it’s not right then I assess and rework them. I think you have a good idea of what you want to accomplish and will figure it out I’m sure. I use short row shaping in every sweater I make for myself to make the neck and sleeves fit better, also for too much bust. I like your idea of casting on part of the sweater then increasing or casting on more stitches at the ends of rows and will try it myself.

[ColoCro]

Huh. Wonder why the pics don’t show. I’ll try directly from my phone.
Knitted as per pattern:

Swatch using your tip to re-order the GSRs:

Swatch with provisional cast on and rows decreased at front edge, not short rows:

[GrumpyGramma]

IMO the yellow looks best, then the one of above it. I like the per pattern one least. What are you thinking you’ll do? After all what works for you and gives the desired result is what matters.

[ColoCro]

I’ll do like the yellow one, except without the provisional CO. It looks tidiest to me to eliminate the short rows in the fabric, just increasing at the seams and edges. Your way is good, too, but has the short rows crossing the raglan line without increases, which interrupts it a bit visually. Hard to see in the dark yarn. I’m sure yet another re-write could account for increases on those short rows, but I’m kind of over this extended testing phase. I’ve learned a LOT, though, so it’s not like it’s wasted effort.

[Creations]

I’m no help but cheering you on. My vote goes for the yellow test too, looks the neatest and most ordered.
Very nice.

[salmonmac]

Yes, just piling on here. Another vote for the yellow.
I had a pattern that began with a provisional and then went straight to short rows. I had to modify it to at least work a row before starting in on the short rows
I like your yellow solution!

[GrumpyGramma]

When I work short rows across raglan lines I work the increases. I’ll work an extra stitch or two past the increase to avoid the turn in the increase stitch. Since I prefer working increases on the RS of the work that can take some on the fly fiddling and figuring and then one RS row might not get an increase on one raglan while the other does after the last short row is completed. In the end it doesn’t show.

@salmonmac

I had a pattern that began with a provisional and then went straight to short rows. I had to modify it to at least work a row before starting in on the short rows

IMO working short rows on the cast on row is not best practice. When I do pick up and knit set in sleeves (seamless) I work a full round into the cast on (picked up stitches) before beginning the short row shaping. After adjusting tension in the cast on round it looks a lot better than when I’ve done the short rows without a full round first.

I’ve also noticed that many knitters consider the cast on done when a crochet cast on in waste yarn is finished and do a row with knits and purls into it then the waste yarn is hard to remove. As I see it the actual cast on is with the project yarn and I learned the hard way to work it in all knits. Picking up stitches in a crochet chain has the cast on with project yarn so the first row worked into waste yarn stitches is achieving the same thing.