Foxed by the stitch count

@salmonmac, I am back with a request for help :slight_smile:

I am starting to knit a sweater, whose pattern reads as follows :

Belt Welt Pattern

Multiple of 6 sts plus 2

Rows 1 (right side): knit
Rows 2 : purl
Row 3 : Knit
Row 4 : Purl
Row 5 : k 2, *p 4, k 2, rep from *
Row 6 : p 2, *k 4, p 2, rep from *
Row 7 : k 2, *p 4, k 2, rep from *
Row 8 : p 2, *k 4, p 2, rep from *
Repeat rows 1-8.

Sweater Sleeve:
Cast on 40 sts (38 sts plus 2 selvedge sts) and work Belt Welt pattern.
Work 74 rows, increasing the sleeve as follows:
increase by 1 st at the beginning and the end of the row in every 8th row 7 times;
increase by 1 st at the beginning and the end of the row in every 6th row 3 times;

I have three areas where I need help -

  1. for Row 5, with 40 stitches, I would do
    Selvedge, k2, (p4, k2) 6 times, selvedge ?
    Am I right ?
    For every row, I include the selvedges in the stitch count that the pattern suggests ?

  2. I figured that the increases have to be done first for every 8th row, 7 times and then for every 6th row, 3 times. This will take me to the 74th row.
    so, increases on rows 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 62, 68, 74.

Is my interpretation correct ? Usually, the first 8 rows are setup rows and the increases start from the next set - but if I do that, I run out of rows for the second and third 6th row increases, as I have to do only 74 rows for the size I have chosen.

  1. Once I do the first increase on the 8th row, I will have 42 stitches.
    Row 9, 10, 11, 12 are straight forward -
    Row 13 with 42 stitches foxes me.
    How would I do k 2, (p 4, k 2) repeat, with 42 stitches ? Would I do a Selvedge, k2, (p4, k2) 6 times, k2, selvedge ? OR
    selvedge, k2, (p4,k2) 6 times, p2, selvedge

The same challenge as I increase to 44 stitches. How do I do
k 2, (p 4, k 2) repeat
with two selvedge stitches on either end ?

Thank you so much in advance !

Hello
It looks to me like you have your stitch count and increases spot on, that’s questions 1 and 2.

Question 3, the increase in ribbing.
I found this video really helpful to understand the direction of increases and in your case you will want to keep the centre stitches in pattern which is covered in the video

In short, if you place a marker where your increase will take place you will be keeping the main body (centre) of the stitches in pattern, maintaining the 2 x 4 pattern established. Outside the marker you will have a few stitches (more with each increase) which maintain their own pattern. At the marker the pattern breaks until you have enough stitches increased whereby the pattern reconnects across the entire row including across the marker.

When you have all 10 increases finished, 5 each end, you will have
Selvedge, K, P P P P, Marker, K2 (P4, K2) …, Marker, P P P P, K, selvedge
See how those 5 new stitches between the selvedge and the marker end up being in pattern?
You may wonder why the final row has a K1 rather than a K2 like the rest of the ribbing, this is because the selvedge will be used to seam the sleeve together which makes the selvedge invisible on right side of the sleeve and draws together those two single K1s which now visibly show as a K2.

Keeping a marker in place will help a great deal to remind you that there is a stutter in the pattern and that you can work the K2 (P4, K2) Row from the marker onwards, not before.
With one increase
Selvedge, increase, marker, k2 (p4, k2)…, marker, increase, selvedge.

I hope this helps.

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Glad you’re on to another lovely sweater. Maybe this pattern:


Nice example of sideways knitting.

I agree with you and Creations about the stitch count and pretty much on increasing in pattern. Although I like Rox’s videos and thorough approach, I think there is a more organic modification for the increases. Instead of making the increases several stitches into the rib pattern. place the increases just inside the selvedge sts. That way the increases will appear to grow out of the sleeve seam. It’s a personal preference here.

This video shows approximately what I mean. The increases are 2sts in from the edge where I would go with just inside the selvedge sts but it comes close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdJg2Mndlr8

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I would also increase just inside the selvedge which perhaps was not clear in my reply. The rox video is possibly too detailed but I found it very useful to understand why/how the rib pattern is increased.

Thank you so much @Creations and @salmonmac.
Indeed, this is the Cuff to Cuff sweater. I am on to a simple cotton camisole at the moment, but am exploring this as my next project. As I read through the instructions, I was confused by the stitch count. Although most patterns are written with quite some detail, some free patterns leave interpretations to the experienced knitter and a couple of difficult experiences has led me to read the pattern out in full before starting or even selecting the project. I remember one of the earliest guidance from @salmonmac to read multiple times and sleep over it too :slight_smile:

I must say I have not fully wrapped my head around the answer to the Q3, and am trying to write down row by row - your detailed explanation and the videos help a ton, Thank you so much @Creations and @salmonmac ! The videos clearly explain the left leaning and right leaning increases and I would do this just after and before the selvedges at each end.
I have written out the rows to internalise : I guess I am working towards adding the (K4,P2) stitches on the outside of the Marker on either ends of WS row. Yippeee ! I have the Row 45 like you have detailed @Creations ! Please could you check Row 49 and Row 53 for me ? I think they are right, as the pattern repeats nicely on either side of the Markers - your review would help much !
After Row 56, the 6th row increases are done 3 times in Rows 62, 68 and 74. Row 74 ends with an incomplete repeat at either end.

First row increase in Row 8 : Selvedge, Inc, M, P2, (K4,P2)x6, M, Inc, Selvedge : 42 Stitches

Row 13 (next set of row 5) : Selvedge, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, Selvedge
Row 14 (Row 6) : Selvedge, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K, Selvedge
Row 15 (Row 7) : Selvedge, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, Selvedge
Row 16 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, P, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, P, Inc, Selvedge : 44 stitches

Row 21 (Row 5) : Selvedge, P,P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, P, Selvedge
Row 22 (Row 6) : Selvedge, K, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K, K, Selvedge
Row 23 (Row 7) : Selvedge, P,P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, P, Selvedge
Row 24 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, K, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x 6, M, K, K, Inc, Selvedge : 46 Stitches

Row 29 (Row 5) : Selvedge, P, P, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, P, P, Selvedge
Row 30 (Row 6) : Selv, K, K, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K, K, K, Selv
Row 31 (Row 7): Selvedge, P, P, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, K, K, K, Selvedge
Row 32 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, K, K, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K, K, K, Inc, Selvedge : 48 St

Row 37 (Row 5): Selvedge, P, P, P, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, P, P, P, Selvedge
Row 38 (Row 6) : Selvedge, K, K, K, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K, K, K, K, K, Selvedge
Row 39 (Row 7) : Selvedge, P, P, P, P, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P, P, P, P, P, Selvedge
Row 40 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, Inc, Selvedge : 50 St

Row 45 (Row 5) : Selvedge, K, P4, M, K2,(P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K, Selvedge

Row 46 (Row 6): Selvedge, P, K4, M, P2,(K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P, Selvedge
Row 47 (Row 7) : Selvedge, K, P4, M, K2, (P4,K2)x6, M, P4, K, Selvedge
Row 48 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, P, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P, Inc, Selvedge : 52 St

Row 53(Row 5): Selvedge, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, Selvedge
Row 54 (Row 6) : Selvedge, P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P2, Selvedge
Row 55 (Row 7) : Selvedge, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, Selvedge
Row 56 (Row8): Selvedge, Inc,P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6,M, K4, P2,Inc, Selvedge: 54 St (End of the 8th row increases)

Row 57 (Row 1) : Selvedge, All Knit, Selvedge
Row 58 (Row 2) : Selvedge, All Purl, Selvedge
Row 59 (Row 3), Selvedge, All Knit, Selvedge
Row 60 (Row 4) : Selvedge, All Purl, Selvedge

Row 61 (Row 5): Selvedge, P, M, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, M, P, Selvedge
Row 62 (Row 6) : Selvedge, Inc, K, M, P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P2, M, K, Inc, Selvedge : 56 St

Row 63 (Row 7) : Selvedge, P, P, M, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, M, P, P, Selv
Row 64 (Row 8) : Selvedge, K, K, M, P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P2, M, K, K, Selv
Row 65 (Row 1) : Selvedge, All Knit, Selvedge
Row 66 (Row 2) : Selvedge, All Purl, Selvedge
Row 67 (Row 3): Selvedge, All Knit, Selvedge
Row 68 (Row 4) : Selvedge, Inc, All Purl, Inc, Selvedge : 58 Stitches

Row 69 (Row 5) : Selvedge, P, P, P, M, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, M, P, P, P, Selvedge
Row 70 (Row 6) : Selvedge, K, K, K, M, P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P2, M, K, K, K, Selvedge
Row 71 (Row 7) : Selvedge, P, P, P, M, K2, P4, M, K2, (P4, K2)x6, M, P4, K2, M, P, P, P, Selvedge
Row 72 (Row 8) : Selvedge, K, K, K, M, P2, K4, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6, M, K4, P2, M, K, K, K, Selvedge
Row 73 (Row 1) : Selvedge, All Knit, Selvedge
Row 74 (Row 2) : Selvedge, Inc, All Purl, Inc, Selvedge : 60 St

That was a very interesting exercise and reminds me of the time we had to write out computer programs before going inside the lab for the short 1 hour slot we were allocated :- :joy:

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This is probably going to be much easier to see with sts on the needles.
I looked at the increase rows. The rows between are a matter of knitting the Vs and purling the bumps to keep the pattern aligned. The ends of the rows are almost always easier to keep in pattern than the beginning of rows where you need to predict what the initial sts will be.

Row 16 (Row 8) : Selvedge, Inc, K, M, P2, (K4, P2)x6 , M, K, Inc, Selvedge
Row 68 Selvedge, Inc, K2, M, P2 (K4,P2) …
Row 74 Selvedge, Inc, K3, M, P2 (K4, P2)…
I’m not sure that I understand the “All Knit” or “All Purl” rows. These rows will also be in pattern.

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Thank You @salmonmac !
The all knit and all purl is from the first 4 rows of the Belt Welt pattern - I thought all the 8 rows of the pattern have to be repeated such.

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You do need the all knit and all purl rows for this pattern - this just show’s that knitting can confuse us all. The pattern isn’t solid rib and the stockinette rows form the kind of weave/check/block pattern. This fabric stitch likely has a name but I don’t know it.

I also spotted some errors in my reply to you…again showing how we can all slip up… but I think you understood the general idea.

Honestly your list of the rows written out gave me brain melt. It’s very hard to check. I see salmonmac spotted an error though.

This will be much easier on the needles, just remembering to pause at each increase and check what it should become, either knit or purl. You may also need to pause and check after each stockinette section because in an all rib pattern you knit the knits and purl the purls but in his broken pattern you have to look a few rows below to see the rib stitches.

I believe this is one of those times when a chart is more useful than written out lines - have you used a chart before? You wouldn’t chart the entire sweater, just 8 rows, the increase stitches can sit on the chart and be covered over with a sticky label (sticky notes, post-it stickers) to hide them until they are needed.
It’s not a requirement, just one more tool which may be useful.

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Ah ok, I see the pattern. Have fun knitting this very cute sweater. I’ve added it to my pattern file for future use.

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Hi @Creations, @salmonmac,
Brain melt …that brought me to tears with laughter …

I too figured that the Knit and purl rows are very much required as they form the horizontal line texture in the pattern.

@salmonmac catching that error was super helpful. I corrected that and together with @Creations 45th row and the detailed explanation, I think I have cracked it and am confident enough to attempt this one.

I am comfortable working with charts too, but still like to write out the rows (need to get out of the habit), and will chart out some rows before I begin.

Thank you so much to both of you. You are awesome and an incredible help and support to (people like) me !

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You are very welcome. I look forward to seeing this cute sweater either in progress or complete!

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Please do post a photo when you finish. This is going to be fun to see!

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