Fish Lips Kiss Heel

Hi! Has anybody used this heel method? It costs one whole dollar, and everybody is raving about it. I bought it, and I’m trying to get going on it, it seems easy, but since I have only knit one pair of socks with a heel flap and gusset, I’m finding it sort of hard to set this up. I’m assuming that if I have 64 stitches on the needle, I’m going to use 32 for the heel, right? Do I knit in 16 stitches and use the next 32? I think that’s right but this is supposed to be a method that is easy, no stitches to pick up. It uses a twin stitch knit and purl and it’s supposed to be easy and fit really well. Any input appreciated.
http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/sox-therapy/2636903/601-625#608

First off what is a “twin stitch knit and purl”?

Typically for a short row heel instructions are to work on half the total number of stitches so 32 of 64 stitches sounds right. Looking at the picture in your link I think it looks like it could easily be too tight (I noticed someone said it was) and without the instructions it’s really hard to say what you should do. I don’t know where the 16 stitches you’re asking about knitting in are in relation to the heel stitches. Are you using dpn or circs?

After you’ve done these, check out this way of doing socks. I find them to be very easy. If you can increase, decrease, and know what short rows are you already know everything you need. Toe-Up Heel-Flap Socks for Magic Loop On these I could offer help.

OK, I found this. Short Rows: Shadow Wraps Is this what you’re doing? It’s similar to the short row method I’ve been using of late, but I knit or purl in the stitch below and place it on the left needle. I can’t tell for sure if what they’re describing is the same or not, I wish I could.

Here’s a youtube link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF_p5QE614Y

So, see how she winds up with a stitch that has 2 loops in it? That becomes a marker, and so you don’t have to count stitches. She has the same thing for the purl side. Everybody who uses this claims they will never have to use a pattern again for knitting a heel. And first you make a cardboard template of your foot, use math to figure out where your heel hinge point should be. Knit SS for an inch before using her twin stitches method for the heel, and the heel will fit like a charm every time. No stitches to pick up, just simple short rows. I really want to try it, but the whole sock thing isn’t set enough in my noggin to get it set up. I think she assumes that you already know how to knit a sock? Anyway, you might check it out for only a dollar…she seems to have quite a following!

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Thanks. I actually found that video and this link http://www.notjustaboutknitting.com/2013/08/fish-lips-kiss-heel.html so now I know you’re doing a short row heel and it seems the main difference is that you’re doing the twin stitch or shadow wraps, which seems to be more or less a lifted increase placed on the needle, not the same but similar to the kb or pb that I’ve been using. I think mine looks about the same as using that method and for me it’s easier.

Anyhow, now I have an idea what you’re doing, tell me about the 16 stitches that you mentioned before, please, and I’ll see if I can make any sense of it. If someone else already understands and responds, that would be great!

ETA As I’ve never made a top-down sock I have never had to pick up stitches around a heel flap.

Thanks, GG! So I knit from the cuff down, with 64 stitches on a teeny 9 inch circular. According to the Sox Therapist, the reason store bought socks fit so well is because they use something like this method, and the reason I am interested is because I have a super high arch and a lot of socks get dragged down into my shoes. So, this evidently is solved by knitting an inch of SS before starting the short wraps.
So, I have done the inch of stockinette, and now I am sort of stuck as to what to do from there. Do I knit in 16 stitches and do the short wraps on the next 32 stitches?

I have other projects to do, so I can wait until the Sox Therapist replies, but I was just wondering how to proceed.

I know you have mentioned your sock method, too, so I’ll also check it out. Now that I am making 10 bajillion stitches with size 1 needles, I want to make sure the buggers fit!

So I looked at your link (thanks) and I like Liat Gat, so I will save it. I just have this one dumb sock that I started cuff down. I did also buy a book Toe Up Socks Two at a Time, which would solve the dreaded SSS. Evidently the Sox Therapist does most of her socks toe up as well, so I guess I’ll try that trend!

Here’s the Ravelry link to the FLK heel:

I think I might understand about the 16 stitches now. Typically a heel is worked on half the stitches, as I have never used a short circ, that went right over my head! :whoosh: I have the stitches divided in half already.

Knit half of the total stitches, then the 2nd half will be your heel stitches or work the first half as heel stitches and make the second half the instep. Your choice. I don’t get the part about an inch of SS before the short rows. Are you working it all the way around? on part of the stitches? to make a gusset using increases? I won’t pay for the pattern because I don’t need it but I am very, very curious.

I can’t find store bought socks that fit me well. I have 10" long fairly narrow feet and a AAAA heel. It seems to me that the secret to not feeding your sock tops to your shoes is a well-fitted foot which includes the heel being knit to fit your instep and the correct length and diameter. I prefer my socks a bit snug but even hand made looser ones don’t feed my shoes. I intend to wear only hand knitted socks because once you find what works for you, nothing else can compare. Right now I’m using sz. 0 needles with sport weight yarn to rib the cuffs of the socks I’m finishing. I’ll bind off, weave in two ends on each sock and give them to my SIL. Next time I think I’ll decrease stitches rather than go down from sz. 2 needles. I really like the look and feel of ribbing on smaller needles though. I say I won’t do it again but that’s probably what I’ll do next time, go down to sz. 0. :eyes: I guess I’m a glutton for punishment. :mrgreen:

The SS is supposed to help the heel fit, and it is worked all the way around. Then follow some Boomerang rows. I don’t see any increases or decreases. I think I’ll look at some of the projects because some of them are shown in progress, maybe that will help.

I have VERY wide feet, but a narrow heel compared to the ball of my foot, and a super high instep, so I’m on a quest for a good fit, too. Some store boughts are OK, but not some.

Anyhoo, thanks for the Liat Gat link, as she mentions tweaking the fir for a high instep. And, so, if you knit toe up, you don’t have to pick up stitches? That sounds good!

I guess if you wanted to you could figure out a way to pick up stitches on toe ups. I sure do hope these fit you well. If not, don’t give up, there is a way to knit socks you like and we can ferret it out! My guess is you’ll end up making them to fit as you go and won’t ever really use a sock pattern again. Why? Because sock patterns are for “average” and like me, you aren’t average. [COLOR=“Magenta”]We’re special and we deserve hand-knit custom-fit socks.[/COLOR] :angelgrin:

It sounds like you’re just making the foot an inch longer to me. I’m going to read over on ravelry and see what I can learn.

By George, I think I’ve got it. :figureditout: That 1" of stockinette is a top-down faux heel flap. :roflhard: I feel better now. Part of my problem is/was that I think toe-up and didn’t make the transition to cuff-down and had that 1" in the wrong place, namely around your foot and not at the back of the heel. I now understand how and why it works. Cool. I learned something new!!! :happydance: Thank you so much for this thread.

I’ve read the first 38 or so posts over there. I think I might be done and will go back to my ribbing. I’ll check in again soon to see if you’ve posted more.

Ah, see, you have a better intuitive feeling for sock structure than I do. All I know is that the SS “helps it fit.” I wouldn’t be able to equate it to a heel flap! Anyway, reading the testimonials on the project page is inspiring, and the finished heels look very neat. I expect I’ll get some feedback tomorrow from the Sox Therapist. I might (as some on the project page did) knit just the heel itself separately to see how it goes. Tired now, off to bed! Thanks for your help!

GG, I think it is! I just made a huge sock heel ( a test run) doing what was described, and it’s all just short rows. It sort of reminds me of doing the nonfelted slippers. It’s very intuitive; in that same way. You can’t lose your place, and don’t have to count at all. It’s pretty brilliant, if you ask me. Now to try it on the real sock! Now what do I do with a sock heel that would only fit Shaquille O’Neal?

I woke up this morning and thought, no, that’s not right. I dunno. I’m sitting here looking at my feet in their faux heel flap gusseted socks and it just doesn’t seem to work. I don’t understand. It really makes no sense to me that adding to the length of the top will make the heel fit better. If the front is in a pattern and the back is SS then the back will be stretchier but the whole thing could be SS. I’ve yet to work a heel that doesn’t involve short rows but I decided that for fit and comfort the Fleegle heel beats the short row heel, and the faux heel flap beats the Fleegle. YMV

Hey Jinx,

That’s an awesome heel formula: the pair of sox I have OTN for husband will have this heel. Thanks for sharing! :inlove:

Since you’ve got your inch done:

On the heel side of your sock, with the RS(knit side, I’m assuming your sock is stockinette) facing, k to the last 2 sts, the work the TSK. Turn, then purl to the last 2 sts, and work the TSP. This progressively shortens each row you knit for the heel.

Do this until you have 10(narrower heel) or 12(wider heel) sts, ending on a purl row. Turn.

You’ll have an upside down trapezoid OTN hanging from the leg of your sock.

Now you’ll work the “boomerang” rows, by knitting to the first twin stitch, and placing a marker. [B]Do not[/B] turn here. Knit each twin stitch up the side of the trapezoid as 1 st. Turn.

Purl to the marker, slip the marker and purl to the next twin st on the other side of the trapezoid, and purl the twin sts as 1 st. Turn.

Boomerang rows are named that way because they go from ankle bone to ankle bone around the heel in a boomerang shape.

The Build 2nd half of heel part is just the reverse of what you did here, but joins the trapezoids together one TSK or TSP at a time.

Please let me know if the designer says I got it wrong!

Hey GG,

Think of the twin knit & purls as a way to both decrease and close the holes on a traditional short row heel. The heel cup works up deeper and tighter than in the traditional short row heel, and the 1" of stockinette is the area above the heel that compensates for the tightness and gives a heel hugging fit. I can’t wait to work this one on husbands socks, this was $1 well spent for a heel formula, IMO. :cheering:

I think I follow your explanation in post 17 and it seems strangely familiar. I’ve done this before. I’ll have to track down where I found it.

Except for the twin stitch, it reminded me of the Lifestyle heel, which I learned thanks to you! :muah: