Armholes/neck...another question!

Okay, this is kind of a continuation of my last question in the “Shaping Armholes” thread. I totally understand the decreases, but now I have another question (you guys are so nice and patient, lol).

Here’s the pattern, including the decrease part:

[COLOR=“DarkOrchid”]BO 6 sts at beg of next 2 rows. Dec 1 st each side of next row; then every other row 5 times total (99 sts).

Work even until work measures 9.5" from beg of armholes, end with a WS row.[/COLOR]

Then, the pattern goes into the next part about BO stitches and using stitch holders to shape the neck and shoulders. Here’s my question, though:

The diagram of the back of the sweater looks roughly like this (ignore all the periods…they’re just keeping the little diagram in place):

 ___ ... ___ .......~~~~
|....\../....|........9.5" between this top squiggle and the next one
|.....\ /....|........(bottom of armholes)        

/…\ …~~~~
|…|… 18" from this squiggle to the bottom of piece
|…|
|…|
|…|
|_________|

That diagram took me forever! LOL. Anyway, Here’s what I don’t understand: After I do the decreases, I work the pattern even until I reach the 9.5 total inches. Doesn’t that make a flat piece across the top, like this:

 ______ ___
|..............|
|..............|

When I start binding off stitches to do the neck/shoulders, how will it “indent” that top piece that is already knit?

I hope this question makes sense…

Hmmm. Good question. I think perhaps the neck doesn’t plunge down as far as you have pictured. What do the rest of the instructions say?

Does the sweater have a V-neck or similar? (Can you post a pic or link?) If so, most likely the pattern will tell you to start working on the neck decs, for shaping, at some point while working the armhole length (the 9.5"). Usually noted as ‘AT THE SAME TIME.’ (Ex: “When armhole is 3” K30, dec1, BO2, place remaining sts on holder. Cont working armhole and neckline decs every 4th row until 9.5". Work other neck edge but reverse shaping.")

cam

See, that’s why I’m confused – there is no “at the same time” reference in terms of relating the armholes to the neck/shoulders. It is a definite V-neck. I will post a picture that I found online (I assume it’s the same sweater, although mine is a bit different).

The directions are literally as follows:

[COLOR=“darkorchid”]Armholes:

BO 6 sts at beg of next 2 rows. Dec 1 st each side of next row; then every other row 5 times total (99 sts).

Work even until work measures 9.5" from beg of armholes, end with a WS row.

Shape Neck and Shoulders:

Right side: *BO 8 sts, work 28 sts, turn. Place remaining sts on a holder. Decrease 1 st from the neck edge every row 4 times; [B]at the same time[/B], BO 8 sts from shoulder edge 3 times. Break off yarn.

Left side: With WS facing, join yarn to shoulder edge. Work as for left side from * – 27 sts remain on holder for back neck.[/COLOR]

So…if the neck/shoulder shaping IS supposed to be done at the same time as the armhole directions, I have no idea when I’m supposed to start doing it. However, it seems obvious from the picture that there’s no way the armhole shaping goes 9.5 inches BEFORE the neck shaping starts (armhole shaping begins just above the stripe pattern).

Are all instructions this confusing? I’m feeling discouraged by the fact that I can’t seem to interpret these instructions without everyone holding my hand through every single step! I am so grateful for all of your help. :oops: :oops: :oops:

Gamerchik, thank you for this thread, I am just now working on my first ever pieced sweater and I am at the part that starts shaping the armholes.
After doing my BO and decreases I am suppose to knit until armhole measures 6 inches. I was wondering what point I use to measure the 6 inches, but your diagram helped with that.
Thank you. :thumbsup: Hope you get an answer to your questions. One thing about KH, if you got a question, someone will have an answer for you.

LOL…you’re right! Everyone here is so helpful. :smiley: I wish my pattern told me at what point to start doing the neck/shoulder part. I hope I get get this figured out before I get there! LOL.

Based on what you posted, your last instruction line

27 sts remain on holder for back neck.

indicates you’re working on the BACK of the sweater. The neckline in the back has very minimal and shallow shaping. (Look at any sweaters you have on hand.) Also, if this is a man’s pullover, the armhole depth will normally be larger than a woman’s so the length might seem long.

My guess is that there are add’l instructions for the front that include the V-neck shaping info. (Along the lines of 'Work as for front until armholes are X inches. Then, work decs…)

From what you’ve posted these instructions seem fairly straight forward and clear. It’s just a matter of familiarizing yourself with how the info is presented and not over-thinking. As others often say, trust the pattern.

cam

Based on your orig diagram, the back shaping is more like this

[COLOR=“White”]…[/COLOR]
[COLOR=“White”] …[/COLOR]_________/

When you’ve completed the 9.5":

Shape Neck and Shoulders:

Right side: *BO 8 sts, work 28 sts, turn. Place remaining sts on a holder. Decrease 1 st from the neck edge every row 4 times; at the same time, BO 8 sts from shoulder edge 3 times. Break off yarn.

Left side: With WS facing, join yarn to shoulder edge. Work as for left side from * – 27 sts remain on holder for back neck.

Being the neck decs are worked on both the RS and WS you’ll need to determine which ones to use so that they’re uniform ON THE RS! The 27 rem sts will be the ‘valley’ below the two completed shoulders.

cam

I cannot express how embarassed I feel for being completely aware that I’m working on the back, and yet, for some reason, wondering why the shaping instructions don’t add up to a V-neck! As soon as I read what you just wrote, it made perfect sense. I am so pregnant right now, lol.

Cam, you’re a genius, and thank you for being so nice to me! :aww: :aww: :aww:

Glad I could help. By the time you get to the front it’ll be a piece of cake! (The back neckline is just a less ‘dramatic’ version of what you’ll be doing on the front.)

Looking forward to seeing pics posted when you get it done.

cam

And you probably picked up that you do one shoulder first, then start work on the other shoulder…

I hadn’t thought about that, Suzeeq, but I will keep that in mind. Thanks! :smiley:

If you choose, you can work both shoulders at the same time being you will have more than one skein. Work one shoulder, drop the yarn for that side, pick up the yarn for the second shoulder and work that side. (I always do this.) Ensures you’ll make mirroring decs.

This also comes in handy when working larger areas…such as you’ll encounter with the front neck. No need to remember where you did the decs…or how many. If sides are done at diff times, and you’re prone to changing your tension on diff days, early in day vs late, etc you might find one side’s gauge turns out a tad longer/shorter or looser/tighter. This also applies to sleeves. No chance for mismatch if worked simultaneously.

Something to think about.

cam