Read them and, honestly, do not agree with them. I prefer the more “traditional Wicca” authors such as Doreen Valiente and Janet and Stewart Farrar.
I hope this isnt a dumb question but what do you mean by more traditional Wicca ???
Probably not the modern fluff.
Silver Ravenwolf kind of went off the deep end and doesn’t have much respect.
It’s not a dumb question at all! A lot of Wiccans have a preference for certain authors. The only “modern-day” (if I can really call it that, since Wicca was started in the late 1940’s-early 1950’s.) author I enjoy is Scott Cunningham. There are quite a few popular Wiccan authors whose works I find a bit questionable - Fiona Horne, Edain McCoy, Silver Ravenwolf, D.J. Conway and Raven Grimassi.
By “traditional” I mean some of the authors who have been around since around the time of Wicca’s inception. Doreen Valiente was a member of Gerald Gardner’s coven (the first coven of the Wiccan religion) and co-wrote much of the Gardnerian Book of Shadows as well as “The Charge of the Goddess”. Janet and Stewart Farrar were initiated into the Alexandrian coven by Alex and Maxine Sanders, who founded the Alexandrian Tradition which was founded in the 1960’s.
I have many issues with Silver Ravenwolf, not only as an author and her methods of practicing the Craft, but also as a person. One of my closest friends got to meet her in person at a Pagan pride festival and apparently Silver is a rather sloppy, messy drunk. Which is unfortunate. As far as her writing, my biggest issue is that most of her books are tirades against Christianity rather than focusing on Wicca. There are quite a few bitter sentiments in her books about Christianity. The dealbreaker for me was the several times she has encouraged teenagers to sneak and practice Wicca behind their parents’ backs. Many covens do not initiate minors in the first place for this very reason, so to be deceitful flies in the face of some of the core tenets of Wicca, especially the Rede.
There is a really good article about Ravenwolf at Wicca for the Rest of Us. It’s worth giving a look over. And please understand that I am not implying that anyone who enjoys reading books by these authors aren’t “real” Wiccans or are being led astray. I just have a preference for the authors that came from the Traditional covens.
“The dealbreaker for me was the several times she has encouraged teenagers to sneak and practice Wicca behind their parents’ backs.”
That’s not cool.
No, it isn’t, and it goes against what we believe in. We understand when we choose this path that there will be many who don’t understand, who may disagree with it (sometimes vehemently), but we also understand that we need to be completely comfortable with our decision to practice Wicca. If you are having to hide your tools under the mattress and lie to your parents, it breeds negative energy and will be a detriment to practicing the Craft.
Isn’t there a complete section of Gardeners Ardanes about keeping secret?
In that aspect she was in line with Gardner. Plus it could be dangerous for some people to “come out”. I probably would’ve been sent to some cult deprogrammers even though I have never been in with anyone else.
“But in these unhappy times we must celebrate our sacred mysteries in secret”
Agree or not, those are part of his rules. (Personally I don’t agree with much of Gardner.)
When you are initiated into a coven, you take an oath of secrecy - that you will not reveal the contents of the coven’s Books of Shadows with those outside the coven. That is to protect the mysteries that make the coven unique.
At the time Gerald Gardner started Wicca, it was not safe to be an “out of the closet” Witch, hence why you needed to be discreet. I don’t have a problem with a tradition wanting to keep its Book of Shadows hidden from outsiders and I understand all too well that you can’t always be completely open about your religion; however, it’s a slippery slope to encourage young people, who are still legally under their parents’ care, to lie about practicing Wicca. It’s a bit different than consenting to being initiated into a coven and taking an oath of secrecy. Many covens won’t initiate minors in the first place.
I am not Wicca but I get the secrecy. No problem. It’s the kids hiding it from parents that I don’t like.
It is fairly well documented in multiple letters that Aleister Crowley wanted Gardner to head the O.‘.T.’.O.'. before Crowley went to Chefalu in Italy, but Gardner was too interested in branching off on his own. Despite that, they parted friends and it was CROWLEY who helped Gardner write the rituals and initiations that are ascribed to Gardner and Valiente.
BTW, I was a good friend of Scotty Cunningham (when he was living with Don Michael Kraig and three blocks from me in San Diego some 30 years ago)… We were all part of the same group that involved Marliee Bigelow, Don, Scotty, members of Church of the Eternal Source, and many more of the “old guard.” I’ve got a lot of that inside dirt…
Gardner’s Ardanes show that not telling really isn’t against what we believe in. It harms no one to not tell them what your personal beliefs are, even if you are a minor and the people you’re not telling are your parents.
In my case it saved both my mother and me mental harm by not telling her. She threw a big enough fit when she found out I avoided being baptized my whole life and that was after she knew I was agnostic. Nobody had to tell me not to tell her.
Face it, after a certain age you no longer have total control over your kids and it doesn’t take an outside influence to create that. Think back to when you were young.
If you happen to have that type of relationship I think you would know not to follow that suggestion and you would probably already have talked about it with your parents before you even picked up a book.
My great niece sure did, then it went to my sister and then to me who suggested some books.
But my niece wasn’t raise on “suffer a witch” and fire and brimstone like my mother was so my great niece was able to talk to her about it.
My uncle was murdered by someone who claimed to be Wiccan and the murder was part of some spell she came up with to break up (now THAT is against what we believe in).
I would be harming that part of my family if I “came out” to them and I would be bringing harm to myself by doing so. If I still talked to my parents I doubt if I would tell them even now, only my siblings know.
I think the secrecy of “Coven Secrets” does more harm to Wicca than not going around telling your family that you’ve decided to dump their religion and pick up the one their religion says to kill.
Once you’ve outed yourself keeping secrets allows lies like “Wicca Moon Dance” or “Wiccan orgies” to flow unchecked (I’ve been fending off both on another forum, I still can’t figure out what a Wicca Moon Dance is, but as long as their are “Coven Secrets” it’s possible and it can be used to say kids should be taken away from Wiccan families).
First of all, I’m sorry about your uncle and I can understand why you are not comfortable “outing” yourself to your family. I oftentimes take for granted the fact that my mother is also Wiccan, so I’ve always been able to be open with my family about it. My husband, on the other hand, his mother has Alzheimer’s Disease and was raised by a Baptist Preacher. To this day she still holds to the belief that her son is a Christian. My husband doesn’t have the heart to tell her, because he doesn’t want his mother’s last days spent worrying that her son will “burn in hell”.
And from a personal standpoint, I agree with you on the secrecy issue. I am not a member of a coven. While I prefer some of the less “fluffy” resources on Wicca (even though I’ve been accused of being fluffy because I love Scott Cunningham’s works), I am not comfortable with the notion that one must be initiated into a Trad coven in order to be a “real” Wiccan. That aside, I have other reasons for not particularly caring for Silver Ravenwolf’s books, but I don’t have a problem with people who use them as a point of reference. I would just always caution anyone in the learning stages to read as many books as they can, from various authors, and glean a little knowledge from each source.
[I]I want to thank you al for your help with suggeting authors & things I really don’t know many people who know alot about this stuff & the few people I have talked to seem to be just acting like they know it all…I am glad you guys are here to suggest books,websites & articles thank you very much it is all much appreciated[/I]
That’s my suggestion.
My issues around Ravenwolf are more because of the Teen Witch Kit. The book was one thing, the kit was going over the line.
I only own To Ride a Silver Broomstick by her and I recall her writing style not being for me but thumbing through that one again I really don’t see much of the problems I hear about.
I had to laugh at some of the “secrets” I’ve been told. So far every one has been some form of Ceremonial Majick. Nothing worth blowing out of proportion with the claim it’s a secret that only 3rd Degree Extra Exalted Grand Poobah is worthy of knowing.
IMO too many covens freely mix too much Ceremonial Majick in and act like it is the religion. It’s the main reason I avoid working with others.
Being a jeweler and a knife maker I don’t know if I’d qualify as a Kitchen Witch, I use nothing from the kitchen drawer, but I’ve gone to great lengths to remove CM from my rituals (on the rare times I actually do anything that could be called a ritual).
I oftentimes take for granted the fact that my mother is also Wiccan
I guess thinking back to when you were young doesn’t do much good 
I’ve wondered what it would be like growing up in a Pagan family. The closest I have as physical reference is my sister being very open to all religions.
Like others have suggested, I would go back to the beginning. Somehow, everything written in the past ten and twenty years is more-or-less based on what was written prior by the following authors:
Starhawk’s - Spiral Dance
Janet & Stewart Farrar - Anything they wrote
Scott Cunningham - Anything he wrote
Margot Adler - Drawing Down the Moon
Well I have to say I was happily suprised to come across this thread while searching for a way to not poke myself in the eye with my #2DPNs (first ever pair of socks).
I am just beginning on the Wiccan path and I have to admit I bought most of Ravenwolf’s books before I knew better…I find myself going back to Scott Cunningham time and time again though. I do find her books helpful as a reference but not as a practice. 
I have a question for everyone - did you just jump right in and start practicing ritual or did you ease into it? I am kind of not sure where to start.
I started out with Ravenwolf’s Silver Broomstick, and it was a good general introduction for me. I have the urge to read everything I can get my hands on when it comes to things I’m interested in, so it was natural to me to then go and find more information from more sources. I’ve read a lot of books that inspired me, but a lot more that left me with a ‘meh’ feeling. It depends on what you’re looking for, though. I am not a Wiccan - I started out thinking I was one, but I’m not. I’m not and can’t ever see myself being in a coven, or any other tiered and ranked system. I feel that anything that brings in ranks or ‘I’m more important than you’ positions makes for a decrease in learning - people become more inclined to act like they know more, and people lower down the ranks think their experiences are not as valid. It would be nice to think Pagans are beyond such silliness, but they’re not - any look at the history of modern coverns, particuarly in the US, will show that.
I like working with people, but in a more organic way - when someone knows something other people don’t, knowledge can be shared, and that’s great. Everyone being on an equal footing means that everyone has something to offer. I’ve unfortunately had to distance myself from the local Pagan community, after being quite active and central in it for a few years. It’s moved to a slightly more sinister power struggle, and most of the people I met seemed to be using whatever their particular system was as a means of escaping reality. It had become just another way of avoiding responsibility for their lives, which, as far as I can see, is kind of the point of being a Pagan. They used their beliefs in the, ‘if it’s meant to happen it will, I don’t have to do anything, bad stuff happened because someone is attacking me, etc’. There was also a lot of ‘I’m the ninth Gatekeeper of whatever and am the only one who can hold back the Apocalpyse, oh the drama’ stuff going on. Which essentially meant she couldn’t hold down a job and be a gatekeeper, because it was too much stress, which is why she kept being fired. Stuff like that got to me, so I extricated myself, and have been much happier since.
There are a lot of people who act like they know a lot, but don’t. As far as I can tell from my experiences - the more rigid they are about the ‘rules’ and ‘how it has to be’, the less experience they have. They may have read a lot (but probably not widely), but either haven’t experienced much, or haven’t paid attention to what they have experienced. Time and life seem to even out the fundamentalism, as you see more and understand more, you’ll find that your ‘rules’ don’t always apply, and you become more tolerant of other paths, other systems, other ways of thinking. I’d listen more to the people who start off with ‘in my experience’ or ‘so far I’ve seen… but that’s just me and your path may be different’, than the people who preach and tell you how it is.
The two things I can recommend are these : If you are interested in a structured system of learning that is still very relaxed and understanding, where ranks are strictly a measure of your progress and nothing to do with anyone else, then the Fellowship of Isis is worth joining. There are a number of ‘Lyceums’ which offer a kind of training, and each one focusses on something different. From the number of them, there seems to be something for everyone, but if not then just the community is worth it. The training isn’t to prove your worth to others but to help you further understand your beliefs.
The other thing is the book ‘Hedge Witch’ by Rae Beth. It remains the most beautiful book I’ve read on the Old Ways, it’s very gentle and inspiring and teaches you about the divinity in the ordinary, everyday things. That you don’t have to be channeling gods every day to get somewhere, just to be quietly thankful and aware of the beauty of the Earth. It has small, everyday ritual ideas, as well as bigger ones for the Sabbats, and there’s a gentle humour in it. Once, I had an experience that I couldn’t understand, and took a chance on writing to the author to see if she could shed any light on it, but never expected a reply. I was stunned when she replied a few days later, having meditated on it and asked her guides for advice.
As for the where to start question, it’s worth reading a few things and starting off slow, with meditations, small candle rituals, circle casting, stuff like that. You can build up to the bigger stuff as you gain confidence, and you’ll get a taste of what ritual can be like for you. It’s an incredible feeling, and well worth it. It’s worth remembering, too, what I was told in my very first ritual by the Divine - that if I ever felt that this path wasn’t right for me, then I could step off it for a while. It’s just a path. If it starts making you more unhappy than happy, then walk away - dedications and so on don’t commit your soul for all eternity. I stepped off for a while, and am now in a much better place, somewhere else on the path. But it’s just a path.
Sorry for the looooong reply - just a lot of things to say about it all If you ever have any questions, feel free to PM me and I’ll do what I can 
Fi xxx
I’m assuming the “her” you are referring to is Ravenwolf. Scott was a man (who actually made his living writing under a pseudonym and penning cheesy romance novels; those made money where New Age books do not).
I jumped right in; established an altar in my room (I was living with my parents then) and doing daily exercises (banishings and building circles). Like anything else, it takes practice and the more you do it, the more comfortable you are doing it.
I read for a year, comparing what I was reading from Wiccan authors to other religions. Then I practiced along the lines of out of a book for a year. Then I created what worked for me (very little ritual along the lines of Buckland’s Pictish invention).
Inner chuckle; Ray Buckland was part of the San Diego group that included Cunningham, Kraig, et al…
Those really were the golden years for me. There were a total of THREE New Age bookstores in San Diego; we would put a sign in each one that we were holding a public Beltane ceremony in Balboa park and 200 people showed up. We could do things like that back then!