Advice or opinion on gauges

Hello all
I’m making some swatches in preparation for a sweater without a pattern. There is a stranded section using 2 colours and an open work, travelling stitches section using 1 colour.
Same yarn for both.
DK wool 21st = 10cm on 4mm needle

Colour work is coming out at 23 sts = 10cm on 5mm and I’m happy with it, flexible enough.
Open work is coming out at approx 16 sts = 10cm on 4mm it’s very stretchy and this is slightly pulled out but not at max.
My thinking is that the open work may be better on smaller needles and maybe aim for the same gauge as the colour work. Any thoughts, opinions or advice on this would be great.

I’ve just started a swatch on 3mm rather than 4mm to see what I get. I expect a firmer fabric which I might not choose if it was all open work, but as it is sitting right by the colour work which is firmer anyway I thought perhaps a firmer open work would be a good call.
What do you think?

Also, I have superwash wool, will blocking to a size (on the open work) make it stay at that size or would it need to be re blocked every wash? This might effect what I do with the gauge as I am unlikely to want to book with pins every time it’s laundered.

Of course if both pieces are the same gauge it makes measuring stitch counts and shaping easier, although if they aren’t the same I’ll just have to calculate each side separately.

Are the colorwork and openwork patterns side-by-side or one above the other? Can you change needle sizes between the two?
I find that lace really needs to be blocked each time it’s washed in order to shine.

1 Like

The two are side by side but knit separately and seamed so different size needles will be fine and if the row count isn’t an exact match that’s okay too.

Hello @Creations,

When working with two colors in stranded colorwork, your fabric tends to be somewhat tighter than when using only one color. This is because changing colors can pull stitches in a bit.
In stranded colorwork, the stitches are narrower due to the strands across the back that snug the stitches up.
Typically, stranded colorwork leaves the row/round gauge about the same, but there are more stitches in 4 inches (10 cm) compared to the same yarn and needle combo worked in single-color stockinette.
Sometimes, patterns with both plain stockinette and colorwork sections adjust the stitch count or needle size to balance things out. For colorwork sections, you might see more stitches and/or larger needles.

Your open work section is coming out at approximately 16 stitches = 10 cm on 4mm needles. It’s stretchy, but not at its maximum.
Considering that the colorwork section is firmer, your intuition about using smaller needles for the open work is spot-on. A firmer open work fabric next to the colorwork could be a good choice.
You’ve started a swatch on 3mm needles to see how it turns out. Expect a firmer fabric, which might complement the adjacent colorwork section.

Blocking can indeed affect the size of your open work. When you block it to a specific size, it will stay close to that size.
However, superwash wool has a memory, and it tends to spring back after washing. While blocking helps initially, you may need to re-block it occasionally.
If you don’t want to pin it every time you launder it, consider using gentle blocking techniques that don’t require extensive pinning.
Having both pieces at the same gauge will simplify measuring stitch counts and shaping.
If they aren’t the same, you can calculate each side separately, as you mentioned.

Best Regards,

2 Likes

Thanks for your thoughts, it’s appreciated.
The 3mm on the open work was a touch too tight so I’m going to do another on a slightly bigger needle, I have 3.25 and 3.5mm, not decided which to try yet, and see how they compare.

With regards blocking and/or blocking every time it’s washed, I know I won’t be reblocking so I’m going to go for a gauge which I think looks OK after washing and flattening out, but without a lot of effort. I’ll be washing the swatch to make sure I know what it comes out like.

My swatch is so big I used a whole ball of yarn. I’ll be frogging to try the new size out.

I agree that getting your gauges closer is a good idea. It’s also worth bearing in mind where the open work will sit on your body, especially with superwash yarn. For example, if it is across the shoulders or bearing the weight of the rest of the garment, it can stretch a lot more in wear than is apparent in a swatch blocked flat.
I have knit lace yokes before but haven’t had to re-block them, for this reason! Just wearing it opens up the pattern!

1 Like

Thank you.
That’s a really good point. There will be a seam at the shoulder (and the other side of the shoulder will be colour work). Thinking how this effects the fabric, my guess is the seam will help to keep the open work open but also supported, mot as open as if it was all open with no seam.
Definitely something to think about.
A set in sleeve but with the width across the body it will be like a drop shoulder, sleeve weight pulling down on that shoulder fabric may open it up there.
Yes, certainly making me think. Even if my thoughts make no sense in writing!
Thank you.

No, that makes perfect sense! Look at the three season cardigan https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/three-season-cardigan
It has a drop shoulder with the lace work over the shoulder. The back neck is supposed to be a provisional cast on too! I looked at lots of the finished projects and noted that many seemed to pull off the shoulder so I put in a few mods when I made mine :rofl::rofl:. Including a tight cable cast on at the neck!!

2 Likes

Thank you. Really useful.
I noticed in the project notes mention of armscye shaping in the front for some sizes and the back for other sizes. What’s the reason for having shaping on one piece but not the other? I’ve never encountered or considered one piece to be shaped and the other not (not that I’ve encountered all that much really with my limited experience).
I haven’t totally decided on my design yet but was thinking shaped armscye and sleeve cap but I want the relaxed look and fit of drop shoulder. Maybe it’s a modified drop sleeve I’m aiming for.

I think the different configurations were for different sizes. I think sizes 1-3 were knit straight, sizes over 3 had a back arm scye, and over 4, had a back and front armsyce. These would give extra bust space, keeping the drop shoulder in place. I was concerned that in this design, the shoulder would drop more than planned in wear, so I picked a size 2 ( I should really have been a size 3, ) and added armsyces front and back. This gave me enough bust width but limited the shoulder drop!
This image should show the distribution bit also how the lace stretches out over the shoulder

3 Likes

That’s beautiful.

I’m still debating… contemplating… swatching.

Thanks so much for your help

You’re very creative to design as you go! Good luck.

1 Like

More foolishness than creativity.

I’ve made enough big swatches I could probably just sew them together and have a sweater!

I think I’ve been caught out by colour effecting gauge. I used a dirty pink (it has a nicer name, old rose or something) for my openwork swatch because I don’t like the colour and thought I’d save my actual yarn from frogging and reknitting damage. I also thought swatching with this pink would help me see the stitch pattern, count gauge, and learn the stitch chart whilst being able to see it better, my actual yarn is black, hard to count stitches etc.
Well…
My swatch with pink was big on the 4mm, too small on the 3mm and of course I am trying 3.5mm, but I decided to go with the black yarn because I thought maybe this is it now and I’ll just keep going for the sweater.
It’s very firm. Feels like a smaller needle rather than bigger. Feels like I need to go back to 4mm!

I’m going to keep going for 40 or more rows to get a good idea of the gauge but I suspect I’ll be ripping this out and returning to the 4mm needle after all.

I really ought to just choose a professional pattern and make something but I have this Japanese stitch bible with lovely stitches I want to use, I have colour charts I want to use… so I end up procrastinating over gauge, what size to make, stitch pattern, colours, and pretty much every design element.

More fool me - ha!

1 Like

Well very dedicated then! I’m an unreliable swatcher - I usually work a half length swatch, soak and dry and measure whilst still on the needles, and then immediately unravel! I do however use the intended yarn as I find they all perform so differently! Although my post block gauge only seems to change with plant based yarns!

2 Likes